Author Topic: PCM -Dropping off passenger "Parking in a restricted area"  (Read 75 times)

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ordinal

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PCM -Dropping off passenger "Parking in a restricted area"
« on: April 08, 2024, 05:18:14 pm »
I am aware I am indicating who was driving (myself), unfortunately I had already admitted that to the parking company before doing my research.



A parking control company has issued me a parking ticket for "Parking within a restricted area". In this case, I was stopped for about ten seconds to drop off a passenger (the warden conveniently stopped taking photographs once the door opened).


On appeal, they had the following to say:
Quote
From my understanding, you are appealing on grounds that you did not park the vehicle rather were dropping off a passenger. This is rejected. Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not define what is meant by "parked". There is however, an implied definition, whereby a charge may only be issued to a vehicle that is "stationary" (please refer to subset 4b) - which can be defined as "not moving". The vehicle was photographed to be 'not moving' - it remains in the same position over a period of time. This constitutes parking and as such the charge was issued, in accordance with signage on site.

Frankly I think this is an insane standpoint. Would stopping your vehicle to read the terms on the sign constitute a violation of the terms themselves? Regardless, before I fight this, I'd like to know if I had a leg to stand on. I've attached the signage and the correspondence.

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b789

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Re: PCM -Dropping off passenger "Parking in a restricted area"
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2024, 05:40:46 pm »
You are advised to show all dates and times on the NtK in order to determine compliance with PoFA. From what can be seen, the wording is PoFA compliant. So, admitting to having been the driver will make little difference unless the dates are not compliant.

How long was the vehicle shown to be stopped? Does the evidence from the attendant photos show the vehicle stopped for more than 5 minutes?

Have you tried Plan A which is a complaint or request from the business/landowner of the location to have their agent cancel the PCN?

Plan B has been rejected with a convoluted interpretation involving PoFA which is irrelevant. You are dealing with intellectually malnourished scammers so don’t expect anything reasonable from them.

Plan C would normally be an appeal to the IAS (IPC member) but they are an exercise in futility. By all means waste your time with an appeal to them and if they cancel it, go buy a lottery ticket.

Plan D is your best bet now. A truly independent arbiter, a judge, will decide whether you owe a debt to CPMUK.

Unfortunately, you need to have the fortitude to weather a barrage of useless but scary (to the uninitiated and low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree) letters from debt collectors. They are powerless to do anything except to scare you into capitulating and paying into their scam.

You have to wait and see if they ever send you an LoC and a claim. If they do, come back and you can get advice. They have 6 years to do so. If you move at any time in those 6 years, you must instruct the DPO of the PPC auto update your address and to “erase” your old one. These scammers often rely on their victims not responding to a claim and getting a CCJ by default.

Follow the advice you get here and there is no risk of getting a CCJ.

ordinal

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Re: PCM -Dropping off passenger "Parking in a restricted area"
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2024, 05:57:57 pm »
You are advised to show all dates and times on the NtK in order to determine compliance with PoFA. From what can be seen, the wording is PoFA compliant. So, admitting to having been the driver will make little difference unless the dates are not compliant.

How long was the vehicle shown to be stopped? Does the evidence from the attendant photos show the vehicle stopped for more than 5 minutes?

Have you tried Plan A which is a complaint or request from the business/landowner of the location to have their agent cancel the PCN?

Plan B has been rejected with a convoluted interpretation involving PoFA which is irrelevant. You are dealing with intellectually malnourished scammers so don’t expect anything reasonable from them.

Plan C would normally be an appeal to the IAS (IPC member) but they are an exercise in futility. By all means waste your time with an appeal to them and if they cancel it, go buy a lottery ticket.

Plan D is your best bet now. A truly independent arbiter, a judge, will decide whether you owe a debt to CPMUK.

Unfortunately, you need to have the fortitude to weather a barrage of useless but scary (to the uninitiated and low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree) letters from debt collectors. They are powerless to do anything except to scare you into capitulating and paying into their scam.

You have to wait and see if they ever send you an LoC and a claim. If they do, come back and you can get advice. They have 6 years to do so. If you move at any time in those 6 years, you must instruct the DPO of the PPC auto update your address and to “erase” your old one. These scammers often rely on their victims not responding to a claim and getting a CCJ by default.

Follow the advice you get here and there is no risk of getting a CCJ.

The time between the first and last photo is about 10 seconds
« Last Edit: April 08, 2024, 06:02:07 pm by ordinal »

b789

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Re: PCM -Dropping off passenger "Parking in a restricted area"
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2024, 06:42:29 pm »
What about the date of the alleged contravention and the date the NtK was issued?

ordinal

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Re: PCM -Dropping off passenger "Parking in a restricted area"
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2024, 06:44:40 pm »
What about the date of the alleged contravention and the date the NtK was issued?

Date of alleged contravention: 18-Mar-2024 @ 17:38
Date PCN was issued: 18-Mar-2024
"Date of posting of this notice": 21-Mar-2024
"Date this notice is given": 25-Mar-2024

b789

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Re: PCM -Dropping off passenger "Parking in a restricted area"
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2024, 07:37:01 pm »
OK, so the NtK is PoFA compliant which means the keeper can be held liable for the charge.

Are there any other evidential photos on the PPCs website? You can go as though to appeal and see what photos they have. Just showing photos only a few seconds apart is not evidence that the driver has breached any contract.

There must be a consideration period for the driver to read and understand the terms before being bound by those terms. Additionally, picking up, dropping off, loading and unloading are not parking.

Have a read of this persuasive appeal court decision (Jonson v Homeguard) that states so:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ezhkj6epu66l1r/JOPSON-V-HOMEGUARD-2906J-Approved.pdf?dl=0

Unfortunately, it would be a judge and not the incestuous IAS that accepts that fact.

ordinal

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Re: PCM -Dropping off passenger "Parking in a restricted area"
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2024, 07:47:36 pm »
OK, so the NtK is PoFA compliant which means the keeper can be held liable for the charge.

Are there any other evidential photos on the PPCs website? You can go as though to appeal and see what photos they have. Just showing photos only a few seconds apart is not evidence that the driver has breached any contract.

There must be a consideration period for the driver to read and understand the terms before being bound by those terms. Additionally, picking up, dropping off, loading and unloading are not parking.

Have a read of this persuasive appeal court decision (Jonson v Homeguard) that states so:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ezhkj6epu66l1r/JOPSON-V-HOMEGUARD-2906J-Approved.pdf?dl=0

Unfortunately, it would be a judge and not the incestuous IAS that accepts that fact.

There are four photos taken between 17:38:53 and 17:38:58 and show my vehicle stopped by the kerb with my indicator on.

What are the next steps here? I might as well appeal to the IAS even if the likelihood is miniscule. Other than that, I'm assuming its a case of waiting for angry letters from debt collectors and eventually a LoC?

b789

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Re: PCM -Dropping off passenger "Parking in a restricted area"
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2024, 07:53:21 pm »
Essentially, those are your options. Have you tried Plan A?

Have you any photos of the signs at the site? Are there any GSV images of the signage?

ordinal

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Re: PCM -Dropping off passenger "Parking in a restricted area"
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2024, 09:24:31 pm »
Essentially, those are your options. Have you tried Plan A?

Have you any photos of the signs at the site? Are there any GSV images of the signage?

The land is owned by [Location of the ticket] Management Company Limited which is as far as I can tell is a holding company (0 employees) owned by a student letting firm registered at the same address. Their only contact information is their office address, and I'm not convinced a student letting company is the kind of place that would want or care enough to cancel the ticket.

In terms of the signage, its pretty much everywhere (although you would be hard pressed to read the signs without first stopping your car).