Author Topic: Liverpool John Lennon Airport - NO STOPPING 'PCN' - ELMS LEGAL - County Claim  (Read 1964 times)

0 Members and 142 Guests are viewing this topic.

Hi All,






Thanks for all your hard work fighting these scammers. I now require your assistance if possible. I have received a County Claim from VCS (ELMS representing them) and would like to fight this.




Particulars of claim: "The claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land. The Defendant's vehicle, xxx, was identified in the Liverpool John Lennon Airport on the 02/06/2022 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely Stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited. At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver. The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct. The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability. The Claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest."




Amount Claimed: £170
Court Fee: £35
Legal Fees: £50
Total: £255





1. I may be wrong, but their powers are only within car-parks and not public roads?


2. This was 2 years ago, I do not have the original NtK as I have relocated.


3. Is this PoC vague? It doesn't have how long I was stopped for or anything? How can they prove I was stopped? using the evidence in the 'PCN'?


4. Also, how are they issuing a Parking Charge Notice for stopping? I wasn't parked..

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Can you please show us a redacted version of the PoC document? Or, in the alternative, share with us the dates on the form.

Hi,

The issue date of this is 30th October 2024.

I'm aware I have to submit my AOS within a certain time frame, which I am planning to do!

With an issue date of 30th October, you have until Monday 18th November to submit the AoS. Follow the instructions in this document to submit it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Once you have submitted the AoS, you have until 4pm on Monday 2nd December to submit the defence.

Let us known when the AoS has been submitted and we'll advise on the defence.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

With an issue date of 30th October, you have until Monday 18th November to submit the AoS. Follow the instructions in this document to submit it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Once you have submitted the AoS, you have until 4pm on Monday 2nd December to submit the defence.

Let us known when the AoS has been submitted and we'll advise on the defence.


Hi, I have submitted my AoS.


Bump, any further advice on this?

Can you provide a bit more info on the reason for stopping and the location you stopped at? Did the driver stop on the way in to the airport or on the way out?

This is so that the defence can be modified accordingly.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 03:48:59 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

I'll put a defence you can use tomorrow. I'm just discussing this with a judge as the PoC are not the basic rubbish that we usually see. Still deficient but the argument about keeper liability and no contract are very strong.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

In response to your previous post, the driver got the PCN on the way to the airport, this wasn't anywhere near the actual terminal, it was like an entrance to a warehouse or something, they could of just been doing a u turn and not really stopping. From what I've read their powers only extend to the car parking areas and not public roads, but I am no where near an expert in this.

Thanks
Like Like x 1 View List

Can you show us on a map where it is you believe the alleged incident took place? We can then try and consult the byelaws to see if it is within the area to which they apply.

I know the location well, having operated out of LJLA for several years. The location is after you turn right on the roundabout when entering the airport. There are some businesses that operate on the left as you drive towards the free drop off area. It is not particularly relevant for now.

I am still discussing whether to use the short defence and draft order to for VCS to provide more detailed PoC that fully comply with CPR 16.4 or to just go for the final defence which would be based on no contract formed and no keeper liability. The short defence would force VCS to fully comply with CPR 16.4 and attempt to comply with the draft order, which is going to be almost impossible for them to comply with, thus forcing a strike out or discontinuance.

Even if they could comply with the draft order, the amended defence would be very strong. I will hopefully provide an answer later this afternoon.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

OK... after some deliberation, here is the defence you should use:

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT
Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

Vehicle Control Services Ltd


Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]


Defendant



DEFENCE


1. The Defendant denies that a contract was formed as alleged by the Claimant.

No Contract Exists

2. The signage at Liverpool John Lennon Airport (JLLA) uses prohibitory language, stating "No Stopping" and "£100 Charge if you Stop." Such language cannot form the basis of a contractual offer, as it does not permit or offer terms capable of acceptance.

3. Even if the sign could be interpreted as offering terms, which is denied, it is ambiguous. It does not specify how long a vehicle must stop to incur the charge or whether stopping momentarily for safety would constitute a breach. Ambiguity in purported terms renders them unenforceable.

4. The £100 charge is clearly punitive, arising from a prohibition, and does not represent a contractual term. Penalty charges are unenforceable unless they reflect a genuine pre-estimate of loss, which the Claimant has not demonstrated.

5. Consequently, the Defendant denies that any enforceable contract was entered into or breached.

No Keeper Liability

6. The Claimant has not clarified whether they are pursuing the Defendant as the registered keeper or the driver, which is prejudicial and undermines the Defendant’s ability to prepare a defence.

7. The Defendant accepts that they are the registered keeper of the vehicle but asserts that any liability as keeper could only arise pursuant to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). However, the location of the alleged breach, Liverpool John Lennon Airport (LJLA), is subject to statutory control under airport bylaws. As such, it is not "relevant land" as defined by Schedule 4 of PoFA, and keeper liability cannot arise.

Inadequate Signage

8. The Defendant disputes the Claimant’s assertion that the terms were "clearly displayed." The signage at Liverpool John Lennon Airport fails to meet the standards required to form a binding contract.

9. The signage does not clearly indicate that entering the land would create a contract or that liability would arise for stopping momentarily, rendering the terms unenforceable.

Claimant’s Authority

10. The Claimant is put to strict proof that they have the authority to issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) at the location of the alleged incident. This must be demonstrated by way of an unredacted contract with the landowner.

11. It is understood that the Claimant’s authority to issue PCNs extends only to the car parking areas and not to the public roads within the location. The Claimant must prove that the alleged breach occurred in an area where they are authorised to operate.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:



You only need to edit your name and the claim number. You sign the document by typing your full name for the signature and date it.

When it's ready, you attach the defence as a PDF file to an email addressed to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and CC in yourself. The claim number must be in the email subject line. In the body of the email simply put "Please find attached the defence in the matter of Vehicle Control Services Ltd v [your full name] Claim No.: [claim number]".

That's it for now.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

I need further help, I obviously received the claim form through the post with a specific claim no. I used that claim no to submit my AoS.

They have sent me a CCJ with a claim reference of a character thats one out. It's a 6 instead of a 7 (the 7 was shown on the claim form for court)
So in MCOL AoS was submitted with xxxx7xx they have now sent me a default judgement with xxxx6xx...

This is an issue on their behalf or the courts?


Thank you for the defence, it is much appreciated. God's work.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2024, 06:27:48 pm by stickycactus22 »

Who is “they” that have sent you something with a claim reference that is different? Are “they” the Claimant or the CNBC (court)?

You need to be very clear. Please show us this “CCJ” that “they” have sent you so that we can better understand what is going on.

Show us a screenshot of what you see on your MCOL history.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Yes, so ELMS Legal has sent me a letter saying NOTICE OF JUDGEMENT IN DEFAULT, claiming I have not responded to their claim xxxx6xx. (Claimant)

 The claim number on the form from court was xxxx7xx which has an issue date of 30/10/24(cnbc)