LEEDS - St Peter's Buildings – CPM

• LEEDS - St Peter's Buildings – CPM
  Posted by RootieTootie on 22 Jul, 2023 00:30
• Hi there,
  
  A PCN was issued in a make-shift looking car-park that turns out was permit only.
  
  All info in dropbox here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/q6ogriloo1iipjndggj95/h?rlkey=p2wibd4lfstqxfz9cq574djdf&dl=0
  
  The driver appealed and lost the appeal and is now prepared to pay the fine to save more expended energy on fighting CPM who seem to reject all appeals regardless. But there seems to be errors in this appeals email (pasted below).
  
  Firstly, the payment due date seems to be incorrect. When logged onto the online payment it said the payment was 4 days overdue - so perhaps it was supposed to read 18th July 2023? However, the email below states that the driver has to pay "within 28 days of the date of this correspondence".
  
  Secondly, the amount due seems also to be incorrect. The rejection email states "If you appeal this charge further then you will lose the ability to pay at the reduced rate." The reduced rate is £60, not £100 as stated.
  
  An email has been sent via their complaints email address as there doesn't seem to be any other way to get through to this company as everything is automated.
  
  Any advice would be gratefully received on whether the assessment of the appeal rejection is correct and how else CPM can be contacted regarding paying the £60 reduced fee.
  
  Many thanks in advance.
  
  
  The following appeal rejection was received on 4.7.23:
  
  PCN REFERENCE NUMBER:
  DATE OF PARKING EVENT: 6th May 2023
  PAYMENT DUE DATE: 18th May 2023
  TOTAL AMOUNT DUE: £100.00
  
  Dear
  
  Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge Notice.
  
  At UK CPM we consider all appeals on a case-by-case basis. We take each appeal very seriously and thoroughly investigate any evidence that has been provided. We appreciate your circumstances and understand this is not a situation anyone would like to find themselves in; however, these parking conditions have been put in place to ensure fair usage for all motorists and support the needs of our client. After careful consideration, it is unfortunate that I am writing to you today to advise that on this occasion, your appeal has been unsuccessful.
  
  The decision to uphold your parking charge notice has been made on the following basis.
  
  Whilst we note the comments and reason for appeal, as per our photographic evidence, the vehicle was parked in contravention of the advertised terms and conditions. This location is for authorised vehicles only whilst they remain on site. Therefore, we can confirm that this Parking Charge has been issued correctly.
  
  You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and therefore you now have two options; either pay or appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS) - you cannot do both.
  
  To make payment of the total amount due as shown above, please use one of the following payment options;
  
  Online: www.paymyticket.co.uk
  Telephone: 0345 463 4040 (24hr)
  Post: Payments & Collections, PO Box 3114, Lancing, BN15 5BR
  Alternatively, if you do not agree with your internal appeal outcome and you wish to dispute the matter further, as you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection.
  
  The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. If you decide to appeal to the IAS, you will need to visit their website and use your PCN reference and corresponding vehicle registration. All PCN's will be uploaded to the IAS website by the end of this working day.
  
  If you appeal this charge further then you will lose the ability to pay at the reduced rate. In the event that your IAS appeal is unsuccessful, the full amount for the PCN will then be payable. If you lodge an appeal with the IAS and then subsequently pay the charge prior to that appeal being determined, then the appeal will be withdrawn, and you will not be given a further opportunity to contest the charge.
  
  If you do not wish to dispute the matter further and payment is not received within 28 days of the date of this correspondence then additional charges may be incurred, for which you may be liable. If the charge continues to remain outstanding, the matter may be later referred for litigation in the County Court which could result in a County Court Judgment being made against you; this may impact on your ability to obtain credit in the future.
• 
  
• #1 Reply
  Posted by DWMB2 on 23 Jul, 2023 23:12
• In order to establish whether or not you ought to have been entitled to pay the discounted rate once your appeal was rejected, we'll need to clarify some dates:
  

  • The date of the Parking Charge was issued: 11th May 2023
  • The date of your appeal: _____
• 
  
• #2 Reply
  Posted by RootieTootie on 25 Jul, 2023 12:01
• Hi there!
  
  This was received yesterday, 24th July, (which answers DWMB2's information request) following an email to the complaints email address (complaints@uk-cpm.com):
  
  "Dear .....
  
  We have reviewed the further evidence you have submitted since your first appeal and must advise that our decision to reject your appeal is unchanged. Whilst we note your comments, the reduced amount of £60.00 was payable within 14 days from the date the Notice to Keeper was issued to you, 11th May 2023. When we received your appeal on 2nd June 2023, the period to pay the reduced amount had expired and the full amount of £100.00 was payable, therefore, upon rejecting your appeal on 4th July 2023, the correct amount was detailed. We note an admin error has occurred by detailing the incorrect payment due date, please accept our apologies for this. On this occasion, as a gesture of goodwill the full amount of £60.00 is due by 7th August 2023. The information about the 28 days advises the PCN will be passed to our Debt Recovery agents after this period. You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. Please be advised that any further correspondence received from you, will not be responded to."
  
  This a better response than expected, but I am keen to still try to identify the landowner and appeal to him directly before 7th August, although, I am struggling to find out who the landowner is.
  
  There's a map and photo of the place the PCN was issued in the dropbox folder - the address being: St Peter's Buildings (I believe at LS9 8AH). The businesses surrounding the land have been contacted to no avail. Land registry have been contacted and sent over the process to find the landowner – You can pay £3 if you know the title number, but to find the title number you have to apply via a SIM form and that seems very convoluted and SIMs require "a plan to show the land that you are interested in, but it must: be drawn to scale, be based on the current large scale Ordnance Survey map, indicate scale and north point and show property extent with suitable colouring and position in relation to nearby roads and other features." As mentioned the dropbox has a plan of the area but to make this to scale is beyond my capabilities. There seems to be a potential free MapSearch option, but you may have to have a registered  business to access that.
  
  Any thoughts/advice on identifying the title number and tracking down the landowner welcome.
• 
  
• #3 Reply
  Posted by DWMB2 on 26 Jul, 2023 00:26
• You don't need the title number - if you use the map or address search then you can simply select the appropriate entry, providing you can identify which one relates to where the vehicle was parked (which isn't always easy).
  
  Here are some tips from Umkomaas on the MoneySavingExpert forum on finding the landowner:
  

  Quote

  1. Google searches
  2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets
  3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent
  4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent
  5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park
  6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information
  7. Contact The Land Registry and for £3 they will provide definitive detail

  Although before you spend any money on Land Registry fees, on what basis are you going to ask the landowner to intervene? There's a good chance that the reason the owner hired CPM in the first place was to stop members of the public using their private property as a free car park, in exactly the way that seems to have been done here.
• 
  
• #4 Reply
  Posted by guest179 on 26 Jul, 2023 19:35
• 
  Exactly.
  
  Why should the landowner undermine their operator's position?
  
  What benefit did the driver bring to the landowner and therefore the negotiating table?
  
  The driver appealed and lost the appeal and is now prepared to pay the fine to save more expended energy on fighting CPM who seem to reject all appeals regardless.
  
  So, who is expending the energy in this case?
  
  The niceties of the Traffic Management Act's 'procedural improprieties' (the council procedure) don't apply here. The discount has been re-offered until 7 August and trying to identify the landowner won't stop the clock.
  
  The PCN seems to comply with PoFA therefore the keeper could be held liable.
• 
  
• #5 Reply
  Posted by RootieTootie on 06 Aug, 2023 12:42
• The driver has paid the £60 reduced fine.
  
  It was felt it was not worth expending the energy.
  
  Thanks for all your advice and knowledge, it's very much appreciated.
•