Author Topic: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?  (Read 521 times)

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Jag84

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I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« on: July 21, 2024, 12:43:08 am »
Just over two years ago I was given a penalty notice for being parked out bay in Nuffield car park. Someone advised me to ignore it and eventually they will stop sending me notices and they never take you to court. I stupidly took that advice and just ignored all the letters


However I have now received a Claim Form with Court Address on it. I didn't keep the original penalty notice only have the last letter sent by DCBL and the Claim Form which I can't attach as it says the drive is full


Should I pay this now or do I have any other options ?


If you need to see it how can I send you guys the court claim form and last DCBL letter ? I can email it


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Jag84

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2024, 12:47:47 am »
The client is Met Parking Services Ltd

b789

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2024, 08:25:35 am »
You will need to show us the Particulars of Claim (PoC). Follow the advice in this thread on how to show your pictures:

READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide

What is the issue date of the claim?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Jag84

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2024, 09:44:35 am »
The date of contravention is 25/04/2022 from claim sent by dcbl and reason given "Out of Bay"


I've tried registering on Imgur but when I do I keep getting error "Email sign-up is not possible in your region. Register using a third-party service".

I've tried registering creating an Imgur account and Yahoo account but still get same message on both


Any other way I can share ?



b789

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2024, 10:04:07 am »
Do you have a DropBox account? They are free and you can host whatever files you like on there and make them available from the Public folder.

To set up a Dropbox account and host a file for public viewing, follow these steps:

### Step 1: Set Up a Dropbox Account

1. **Go to the Dropbox Website:**
   - Open your web browser and navigate to [Dropbox](https://www.dropbox.com).

2. **Sign Up:**
   - Click on the "Sign up" button.
   - Enter your first name, last name, email address, and create a password. Alternatively, you can sign up using your Google account.

3. **Agree to Terms:**
   - Read the Dropbox terms of service and privacy policy, then check the box to agree.

4. **Click "Create an account":**
   - Follow any additional prompts to complete the account creation process.

### Step 2: Upload a File

1. **Log In to Your Dropbox Account:**
   - Go to [Dropbox](https://www.dropbox.com) and click on the "Sign in" button.
   - Enter your email and password to log in.

2. **Upload a File:**
   - Once logged in, click on the "Upload" button, usually found on the right side of the homepage.
   - Select "Files" from the dropdown menu.
   - Choose the file you want to upload from your computer and click "Open" or "Upload".

### Step 3: Make the File Public

1. **Locate the File:**
   - After the file is uploaded, navigate to the file in your Dropbox.

2. **Share the File:**
   - Click on the "Share" button next to the file you want to make public.

3. **Create a Link:**
   - In the sharing menu, click on "Create link".
   - If the link isn’t automatically set to be viewable by anyone with the link, you may need to adjust the link settings. Click on "Link settings" or similar options.

4. **Copy the Link:**
   - Once the link is created, click "Copy link" to copy it to your clipboard.

### Step 4: Share the Link

- **Distribute the Link:**
  - Share the copied link with anyone you want to view the file. They will be able to access and view the file without needing a Dropbox account.

### Additional Tips

- **Folder Sharing:**
  - If you want to share multiple files, consider creating a folder, uploading all files to that folder, and then sharing the folder link.
 
- **Link Settings:**
  - In the link settings, you can manage permissions, such as allowing viewers to comment or download the file.

- **Using Dropbox App:**
  - You can also perform these actions using the Dropbox desktop or mobile app. The process is similar with options available for uploading, sharing, and managing link settings.

By following these steps, you'll be able to set up a Dropbox account, upload a file, and share it publicly for anyone to view.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

DWMB2

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2024, 11:17:23 am »
As an aside you don't need to create an account to use Imgur, you can just upload.

Jag84

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2024, 12:33:53 pm »
Ok thank you that's very helpful, bit of a novice but hope the links below work ?

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dqokxnaq9nq3qemfvt01u/Nuffield_Court.JPG?rlkey=qonchnvig0kyzuwb8e7040dak&st=c12k2yiz&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tpqofg629zyy1nnh4tf45/Nuffield_DCBL.JPG?rlkey=yth1bf1qavog58f9k5cfjqjtj&st=tmww3hxg&dl=0


I went to the car park today and looks like the parking company no longer operates there, seems they have been kicked out
« Last Edit: July 21, 2024, 01:26:46 pm by Jag84 »

b789

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2024, 08:04:09 pm »
Have you acknowledged service (AoS) of the claim yet? If not, you have until Monday 5th August to do so. There is no advantage to delay the AoS so follow the instructions here to get that out of the way. DO NOT file your defence using the MCOL website. Your defence will be submitted as a PDF attachment to an email.

How to do the AoS on MCOL:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

By filing your AoS you will then have until 4pm on Monday 19th August to file your defence.

I suggest that because the Particulars of Claim are so woefully inadequate that you file the following as your defence:



IN THE COUNTY COURT

Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

[Claimant's Full Name
Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]
Defendant



DEFENCE



1. The Defendant denies any liability for this claim.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a).

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because: 

  (i) The contract referred to is not attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16.7.3;

  (ii) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

  (iii) The PoC do not set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts);

  (iv) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

  (v) The PoC do not state exactly how the claim for statutory interest is calculated.

  (vi) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages.

  (vii) The PoC states that the Claimant is suing the defendant as the driver or the keeper. The claimant obviously knows whether the defendant is being sued as the driver or the keeper and should not be permitted to plead alternative causes of action. 

4. The Defendant has attached to this defence a copy of an order made at another court which the allocating judge ought to make at this stage so that the Defendant can then know and understand the case which he/she/it faces and can then respond properly to the claim.

You also attach the following document, preferably as a Word document but as a PDF.

Before District Judge [Name] on [Date]

Of the Court's own initiative and upon reading the particulars of claim and the defence

AND the court being of the view that there is a lack of precise detail in the particulars of claim in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the defendant such that the particulars of claim do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a)

Order

1. Unless the Claimant do by 4pm on (insert a date here 14 days from typing the order) file at court a further particulars of claim which complies with CPR 16.4(1)(a) and which sets out:

(i) the precise and concise factual allegations it makes against the Defendant and

(ii) the factual or legal [or both] basis of its claim and

(iii) exactly how its claim is calculated (if there is a claim for a fixed sum)

then the claim shall be struck out.

1.    For the avoidance of doubt the further particulars of claim must refer to and have attached to them the contract (or contracts) between the claimant and defendant relied on [marked "A"] and must set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on.
2.    For the avoidance of doubt the further particulars of claim must, in respect of each and every alleged breach of contract, set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts that the defendant was in breach of contract.
3.    For the avoidance of doubt the further particulars of claim must, in respect of each and every alleged breach of contract, set out the full postal address of where the breach took place, the precise date and time of the alleged breach, and exactly how long it is alleged that the defendant had parked his/her/its/their vehicle before the parking charge was incurred
4.    For the avoidance of doubt the further particulars of claim must set out a precise calculation of any claim for statutory interest up to the date of issue to include the date when it is said that interest started running.
5.    Permission to either party to apply to set aside, vary or stay this order by an application on notice which must be filed at this Court not more than 5 days after service of this order, failing which no such application may be made.

The defence will be emailed to claim responses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk. You CC in yourself. The subject of the email should be "Defence to claim No: [claim number] and in the body you just say please find attached the defence to claim: [claim number]. You should receive an immediate auto response which is your receipt of delivery.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Jag84

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2024, 09:25:30 am »
Thank you

The car is under my wifes name , when I do the above should I do it under my wifes account or can I do it under mine ?


Should it be under the drivers account ? Any issues declaring at this point who the driver was to you guys on this forum ?



DWMB2

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2024, 09:52:01 am »
Who is the claim against? Whoever is named on the claim form is the defendant, and they are the one who must defend the claim.

The Rookie

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2024, 10:34:34 am »
No point saying who the driver is, they aren’t involved at all now.

HOWEVER if the keeper (the person named on the claim form) wasn’t driving then it’s critical to determine if the keeper can be liable at all (which needs the NTK, the first document sent to the keeper), if they failed to meet the requirements then the defendant shouldn’t not be found liable at all.

While you ignored, you did at least hopefully keep the documents alleging a debt? And yes ignoring is bad advice, especially if it means then ignoring the formal letter before claim.
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!

b789

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2024, 10:34:50 am »
There is no need to identify the driver. As above, In whose name is the claim? That is the person that will be responding. If it is in your wife's name but you want to do all the work, that is OK but it has to be in her name.

I forgot to add to the bottom of the suggested defence the Statement of Truth which should be as follows:

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

So the defence you will be sending should look like this with the appropriate bits filled in:



IN THE COUNTY COURT

Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

[Claimant's Full Name]
Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]
Defendant



DEFENCE

1. The Defendant denies any liability for this claim.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a).

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

  (i) The contract referred to is not attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16.7.3;

  (ii) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

  (iii) The PoC do not set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts);

  (iv) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

  (v) The PoC do not state exactly how the claim for statutory interest is calculated.

  (vi) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages.

  (vii) The PoC states that the Claimant is suing the defendant as the driver or the keeper. The claimant obviously knows whether the defendant is being sued as the driver or the keeper and should not be permitted to plead alternative causes of action.

4. The Defendant has attached to this defence a copy of an order made at another court which the allocating judge ought to make at this stage so that the Defendant can then know and understand the case which he/she/it faces and can then respond properly to the claim.

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.


Signed:


Date:

And then the draft order:

Before District Judge [Name] on [Date]

Of the Court's own initiative and upon reading the particulars of claim and the defence

AND the court being of the view that there is a lack of precise detail in the particulars of claim in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the defendant such that the particulars of claim do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a)

Order

1. Unless the Claimant do by 4pm on (insert a date here 14 days from typing the order) file at court a further particulars of claim which complies with CPR 16.4(1)(a) and which sets out:

(i) the precise and concise factual allegations it makes against the Defendant and

(ii) the factual or legal [or both] basis of its claim and

(iii) exactly how its claim is calculated (if there is a claim for a fixed sum)

then the claim shall be struck out.

1.    For the avoidance of doubt the further particulars of claim must refer to and have attached to them the contract (or contracts) between the claimant and defendant relied on [marked "A"] and must set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on.
2.    For the avoidance of doubt the further particulars of claim must, in respect of each and every alleged breach of contract, set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts that the defendant was in breach of contract.
3.    For the avoidance of doubt the further particulars of claim must, in respect of each and every alleged breach of contract, set out the full postal address of where the breach took place, the precise date and time of the alleged breach, and exactly how long it is alleged that the defendant had parked his/her/its/their vehicle before the parking charge was incurred
4.    For the avoidance of doubt the further particulars of claim must set out a precise calculation of any claim for statutory interest up to the date of issue to include the date when it is said that interest started running.
5.    Permission to either party to apply to set aside, vary or stay this order by an application on notice which must be filed at this Court not more than 5 days after service of this order, failing which no such application may be made.

The defence statement can be signed electronically by simply typing the full name of the defendant where it says "signature".
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Jag84

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2024, 12:17:52 pm »
Apologies if this is a stupid question. For the "Draft Order" ,template below,  I put my wifes name who is the owner of the car and the claim against ?


"And then the draft order:

Before District Judge [Name] on [08-Aug-2024]"

b789

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2024, 12:22:00 pm »
Only the person named on the claim can respond. There is only the driver and the keeper. There is nothing to show who is the "owner" and if you look at the front of the V5C, it specifically states that it is not proof of ownership. In whose name is the claim?

There has been a slight amendment to the Draft Order which you should use as it does not require any editing.

If you haven't sent the defence yet, there are also some minor changes, in which case use the latest version which is linked below:

Short defence third person

Draft order for the short defence
« Last Edit: August 08, 2024, 12:25:13 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

DWMB2

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Re: I've followed the wrong advice anyway out ?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2024, 12:24:21 pm »
If you haven't sent the defence yet, there are also some minor changes, in which case use the latest version which is linked below:

Short defence third person

Draft order for the short defence
Both of those links lead to the same document.