3. Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
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Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
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Hi there:

I might have found you guys to late but here goes. I got (2) PCN's for the same location (Parking Charges). I responded to both with the defence that I never parked my car anywhere nor is there any evidence showing my car was parked. They have given me (2) photo of my car entering and leaving the property but won't provide me with any evidence showing my car was parked. The fact of the matter is I never parked and only turned around to head in the other direction off a busy street that i pay road tax to used and the fact their was an accident blocking the street I need to go down. For the sake of argument, there was no way of validating my entrance because the business was closed. It was early in the morning and the pub does no open until after Lunchtime and you have to validate your parking at the Bar. The place was entirely empty. I know the it very well as I only live a half mile away and sometimes eat their. Without going into explicit detail I filed a counter claim and paid the fee and we are currently in court proceedings. I have been warned by the court that my counter claim will be struck-out if I don't comply with Practice Direction 16 (paragraph 3) of the Civil Procedure Rules in respect of bringing a claim for personal injury. I am cool with the Strike-out at this point because I am still gathering the evidence I need to support my Counter-claim and will file a separate claim upon this matter being sorted.

My question for you guys is...

I deny that I ever parked my car and left within minutes of entering the parking lot. I never got out of my car.

Would this statement alone be sufficient for my defence and witness statement. I also have my wife to clarify We did not park our car anywhere that they are claiming. I'll leave it here for now but I have lots more I could add in regards to what I have done in my defence. The court has set a trial date for July 2nd and my witness statement or defence is due by June 20th. Thanks in advance for any reply you might have.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2025, 06:08:59 pm by MGH »
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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #1 on: »
The short answer to your actual question is "maybe" - courts work on the balance of probability, and if it goes to a hearing the judge will make an assessment based on the contents of both sides submissions, and any further details that emerge in the hearing.

To provide more thorough advice, it would be useful for us to see:
  • The particulars of claim from the claimant
  • A copy of your defence
  • How long do they alleged the vehicle was in the car park?

It may also be useful to see exactly what you have submitted as a counterclaim.
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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #2 on: »
I don't know if you seen the attachment with the details of the PCN? I attached them to this post. It says I was on the property for 5:46 seconds. I replied in my defence I never parked my car and was only turning around as there was an accident to the road I wanted to go down. In short, it was blocked. They have not given me any photos of my car being parked when i have requested they do so. I will attach them again.

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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #3 on: »
We really will need to see the particulars of claim (in full), and your defence in full, not just a summary.

The immediate thing that leaps out to me, from what we've seen so far, is your argument that you were just turning your vehicle round, vs the alleged time on site. A judge may want to know why it took 5 minutes and 27 seconds to simply turn round.

UKPC use DCB Legal who do have a habit of discontinuing claims, but may carry on if they think they've a good chance, so we will need to see the documents I referred to above.
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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #4 on: »
The 'consideration period' which the operator is required to allow under their Code of Practice is generally 5 minutes.

You exceeded this, hence why a NTK was sent.

You appear, although we've yet to see docs, to have acknowledged to UKPC that you were the driver. If so, the procedural niceties of the Protection of Freedoms Act do not apply.

However, what does 'I got (2) PCN's for the same location' mean? You've shown us one.

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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #5 on: »
Hi again:

I have attached my defence & Counter Claim completed N9B form. I will attached their POC's when I can find the hard copy. I am in & out of the house as I am still recovering from my Bowel Cancer Surgery and have to go for check-ups. Please bare with me and I will post their particulars of the claim.

With regards to the (2) PCN's for the same location (See Attachments) one was dismissed but I never heard anything back on the one I am in court with. I have attached both PCN'S for your review and the letter Cancelling the 2nd PCN. I still can't figure out why they did not Cancel the 1st PCN I received on the 02/05/24 for being on the property for 5 minutes & 27 seconds but cancelled the PCN I received on 07-05-24 for being on the property for 7 minutes & 2 seconds. Thanks for all your help thus far.

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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #6 on: »
Please find attached my Defence and Counter claim form N9B.

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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #7 on: »
Sorry to hear about your illness.

The counterclaim you have shown us contradicts what you have told us. In your posts so far, you have claimed that you entered the land for the purpose of turning your vehicle round, and never left the car - however in your counterclaim, you allege that you were there to discuss renting a hotel room.

It's impossible to offer reliable advice if you tell us one thing, but then show us submissions that state something else.

Coming back to your opening post I've noticed this:
Quote
I am cool with the Strike-out at this point because I am still gathering the evidence I need to support my Counter-claim and will file a separate claim upon this matter being sorted
If your claim is struck out, you don't generally get to simply try again on the same grounds - I would imagine that 'cause of action estoppel' would apply.
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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #8 on: »
Claims can be struck out with and without prejudice. With prejudice means that you cannot restate that claim. Claims tend to be struck out with prejudice when there are no legitimate grounds. Claims tend to be struck out [without prejudice] when there is some procedural issue.

For example, where a claim is struck out for inadequate PoC, the claimant is generally free to issue a fresh claim but with an adequate PoC.  Res judicata would not apply as the merits of the claim had not been determined, merely the form found to be inadequate.

N.B. This post is solely intended to clarify the narrow point, and does not indicate any opinion on the merits of the OP's counterclaim, or indicate that I have any intention of forming any such opinion beyond that which can be formed from the observations of m'learned friend.
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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #9 on: »
Thanks for the clarification, most useful.
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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #10 on: »
If you remember I have (2) PCN's. Yes on my 2nd return I had done so to view used cars I had seen the 1st time I was there. In fact I have been there many times before. It's a pub that does not open until after lunch time. I hope you understand better now. My issue is I never stopped, parked or even got out of my car on both occasions because when I went back the 2nd time I talk to occupier who happened to be at near the entrance to the property. He was just standing there and when I pulled in I asked him who owned the cars. He stated the place does not open until after Lunch and to come back then. Get me! Nope I don't have his witness statement but I have information that he and in wife live on the property as caretakers. They do not run the pub which is where you validate to park your car. The pub was closed. Phewww!
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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #11 on: »
Somehow, it's now even less clear than it was before... We now have 3 different versions of events from you.

Version 1:
Quote
I never parked and only turned around to head in the other direction

Version 2:
Quote
the DCC also spoke with the occupier about renting a hotel roon (sic)

Version 3:
Quote
on my 2nd return I had done so to view used cars [...] I talk to occupier who happened to be at near the entrance to the property. He was just standing there and when I pulled in I asked him who owned the cars

Most of what you have told us relates to the 2nd PCN (and therefore the contents of your counterclaim, which talks about speaking to the occupier, presumably also relates to your 2nd PCN), but this is irrelevant to your defence, as that PCN has been cancelled, and they're suing you for the other one.
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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #12 on: »
Exactly! The one you are talking about I am being sued for is alleged to of been committed on 02/05/24. The cancelled PCN was alleged to of been committed on 07/05/24. In there POC's they alleged I never contacted them and is why the matter has gotten to this stage. I have never contacted DCB Legal and never will. I have however, contacted UKPC on numerous occasions. Both by phone and email's. My Exhibits are now attached to my witness statement that is just about done and ready for filing. Av a wicked day!
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Re: Given a PCN but I never parked my car on private land.
« Reply #13 on: »
P.s I never went into explicit detail in my claim because I simply did not park or get out of my car. Hence my original question I asked you guys...(I deny that I ever parked my car and left within minutes of entering the parking lot, I never got out of my car is this statement alone sufficient enough for my defence) In fact their CCTV footage would show me entering and actually being able turn my car around without even stopping. However when we got to the exit we had to wait to get into the busy road because an access road had become blocked from a scooter accident. This is the fact of the matter. The 2nd time I went there on my own and I spoke with the occupier. As I have stated before I asked about the cars and also asked if the they had rooms for rent as it is listed under the postal address as a Hotel. This is a freehold property and is simply a pub now. A pub that does not open until after lunchtime. In reality there was no parking contract available as the place was closed. All the best!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2025, 07:33:39 am by MGH »
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