Author Topic: Gemini Parking Solutions Parking PCN – Exceeded Maximum Stay Period – Burger King, Gants Hill  (Read 2235 times)

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Hello,

I received an email today from my leasing company stating I've received a PCN for the driver overstaying the 1 hour limit.

Here is what happened on the day allegedly:

Upon entering the car park in the evening when it was dark, the driver found a space to charge the vehicle, parked up, but struggled with the charging, but eventually managed to get it started, and rested while the car charged, but when they left the car park they had exceeded the maximum parking period.

The sign board that I've attached is not near the parking spot.

The part which confuses me when appealing this is my lease company hasn't given Gemini Parking Solutions my details, but rather provided a "Third Party Authorisation Letter" so I'm wondering do I just appeal directly and attach the letter, I can't claim I'm the registered keeper as I'm not rather just the lessee.

I've spoken to the landowner in person (manager), but he did the equivalent of telling me to sod off.

How do I approach this? I've heard IAS are not to be trusted and won't listen to appeals.

Attached is the PCN, sign board and authorisation letter.

Thank you.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2025, 08:18:10 pm by Atlas8592 »

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You should tell your leasing company to read the cunningly hidden part of the PCN marked "HOW TO TRANSFER LIABILITY", and tell them that they should provide your details as the hirer.

Your lease company are utter idiots. Which bit of this on the back to the Notice to Keeper (NtK) they received were they unable to comprehend?

If you are a hire or leasing company, please provide us with a signed statement confirming the hirer's name and address and include a copy of both the hire/leasing agreement and their statement of liability.
Documents can be submitted by visiting www.geminiparkingsolutions.com or by post to PO Box 5767, Dingwall, IV15 OAX. For hire or lease companies, please provide us with a signed statement confirming the hirer's name and address and include a copy of both the hire agreement and their statement liability.

Their letter of authority is not the way to transfer liability and they remain liable if Gemini want to chase them, which means that you will probably be charged when the Tusker morons just pay the charge. You also know they are intellectually malnourished when they refer to a Parking Charge Notice (PCN), a civil matter, as a Penalty Charge Notice which is a statutory matter. A speculative invoice for an alleged breach of contract by the driver from an unregulated private parking firm is not and can never be a "penalty".

THe NtK is addressed to Tusker who are the Keeper. You are the Hirer. In order to transfer liability, Tusker must follow the instructions on the back of the NtK and once they have done that, Gemini must issue a Notice to Hirer (NtH) in your name and then you can deal with it.

PCNs for hired/leased vehicles are "golden tickets" as long as the hire/lease company correctly transfer the liability as required under PoFA 2012 paragraph 13. You can then guarantee that Gemini will fail to fully comply with PoFA paragraph 14 and there can be no transfer of liability to the Hirer, as long as the driver is not identified. There is no way that anyone could know who the driver is unless the Hirer blabs it, inadvertently or otherwise.

For now, you need to send the following to Tusker and make sure you CC in yourself:

Quote
Subject: Private parking charge – formal instruction to transfer liability under PoFA 2012 (hire vehicle)
Tusker reference: [Tusker ref if any]
Gemini PCN reference: [PCN reference]
Vehicle: [VRM] — Event date: [dd/mm/yyyy] — Site: [Location]

Dear Tusker,

You have forwarded a Notice to Keeper addressed to you as the keeper, with a “third-party authorisation”. That does not transfer liability under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).

To discharge keeper liability for a hire/lease vehicle you must, within 28 days of the NtK being “given” (deemed delivered two working days after the issue date), give the creditor the documents prescribed by PoFA Schedule 4 paragraph 13(2): (1) a signed statement naming the hirer and confirming the hire at the material time together with the hirer’s address for service; (2) a copy of the hire/lease agreement; and (3) a copy of the hirer’s signed statement of liability. Your own NtK reiterates this requirement:

If you are a hire or leasing company, please provide us with a signed statement confirming the hirer’s name and address and include a copy of both the hire/leasing agreement and their statement of liability.

Action required now: send the PoFA paragraph 13(2) documents to Gemini and make clear that this is a formal PoFA transfer. Instruct Gemini to correspond with me as the hirer and to serve any Notice to Hirer at the address below. Do not make payment.

Hirer details for service
Name: [Full name]
Address: [Postal address]
Email/phone (optional): [Details]

Your correspondence repeatedly refers to a “Penalty Charge Notice”. That is wrong and misleading. A Penalty Charge Notice is a statutory instrument issued by public authorities (for example under the Traffic Management Act 2004 or the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003). It engages a formal statutory process (PCN → Notice to Owner → representations → adjudicator at London Tribunals/Traffic Penalty Tribunal), and any sums are payable to the public authority. By contrast, a Parking Charge Notice from Gemini is a civil, contractual invoice issued by a private company on private land. It is not a “penalty”, there is no statutory enforcement or adjudication, and any sum is payable to the private operator; keeper liability (if any) arises only via strict compliance with PoFA Schedule 4. Conflating these terms is embarrassing for a leasing firm and risks being a misleading action or omission contrary to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

Please correct your templates and confirm by return that: (a) you have completed the PoFA transfer; (b) you will not pay or recharge any sum relating to this private parking notice; and (c) all future references will correctly describe such notices as Parking Charge Notices.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not admit to being the driver and I am under no legal obligation to do so.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
[Date]

You can also send the following to Gemini, again CC yourself:

Quote
Subject: PCN [PCN reference] – Hirer correspondence and requirement for Notice to Hirer

Gemini Parking Solutions
PCN reference: [PCN reference]
Vehicle: [VRM]
Event date: [dd/mm/yyyy]
Location: [Site]

Dear Sir or Madam,

Please find attached a letter from Tusker authorising me to correspond in relation to the above matter. I am the hirer of the vehicle.

Until a valid Notice to Hirer is issued in my name at the address below, I am not obliged to respond further. Please place the matter on hold and confirm that no further action will be taken or passed to third parties pending service of a Notice to Hirer.

This is not an appeal and should not be treated as such.

Hirer details for service
Name: [Full name]
Address: [Postal address]
Email/phone (optional): [Details]
Enclosure: Tusker authorisation letter

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Thank you that is very detailed.

I'll get those emails over to the relevant parties and come back when I have more.

Enjoy your time off!

After chasing Tusker they've come back with the following:

"As our agreement/contract isn't with you but is in fact with your employer we cannot transfer liability to you. Please obtain written confirmation from your employer they are happy to take on the transfer of liability on behalf of you as the driver of the vehicle"

Not had a chance yet, but I need to re-read the contract to see if this is true.

If this is true, what would the next steps be?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2025, 02:11:12 pm by Atlas8592 »

This is what Gemini said when I initially emailed them:

"Thank you for contacting Gemini Parking Solutions

My apologies for the delay in responding to you.

Having investigated this, a transfer of liability has been sent by the leasing company, once this has been actioned a parking charge will be issued.

Once this has been issued, this will allow you to pay or appeal through our website."

If your company is the 'Hirer' then you will need a Letter of Authority (LoA) from them that authorises you to respond to the NtH on their behalf.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

My company hasn't given me the authorisation letter yet and Tusker didn't seem like they were going to liaise with Gemini, yet I got this letter and nothing else.

https://i.postimg.cc/KjtGb4D2/markup-23504.jpg

I'm going to assume that that Notice to Hirer (NtH) has been sent to you, in your name. Was there anything else included with that NtH?

Assuming nothing else was included with that NtH (they usually fail to comply with this), they cannot hold the Hirer liable. Only the driver can be liable and they have no idea who that is, unless you tell them, which you are under no legal obligation to do so.

So, if I am correct with my assumptions above, you can appeal that NtH with the following:

Quote
I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer of the vehicle liable for the charge. You have failed to comply with PoFA ¶14(6). Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Gemini has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Gemini have no hope at IAS and even less should you be so stupid as to try and litigate, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2025, 02:02:06 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

I'm going to assume that that Notice to Hirer (NtH) has been sent to you, in your name. Was there anything else included with that NtH?

Assuming nothing else was included with that NtH (they usually fail to comply with this), they cannot hold the Hirer liable. Only the driver can be liable and they have no idea who that is, unless you tell them, which you are under no legal obligation to do so.

So, if I am correct with my assumptions above, you can appeal that NtH with the following:

quote]I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer of the vehicle liable for the charge. You have failed to comply with PoFA ¶14(6). Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Gemini has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Gemini have no hope at IAS and even less should you be so stupid as to try and litigate, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
[/quote]

Correct, this is the Notice to Hirer and nothing was included, just the letter.

Am I able to appeal even though I'm not the Hirer by what Tusker has said?

I'm assuming they sent this to me based off the email I sent them, but they didn't wait for anything from Tusker and sent this in a rush to get their money.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2025, 12:15:28 pm by Atlas8592 »

If the notice is addressed to you, then Gemini are pursuing you and you can therefore appeal.
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Received this today, from what I understand appealing as a Keeper is valid and the driver doesn't have to be the one to appeal?


It’s a fishing exercise, lots of them do it to try to persuade you to identify the driver.

You appealed as hirer in the face of non-compliance with PoFA 2012, didn’t you?

You can ignore this, they will then reject your valid appeal, allow you to get the IAS to do the same, but would lose in court.

It’s a fishing exercise, lots of them do it to try to persuade you to identify the driver.

You appealed as hirer in the face of non-compliance with PoFA 2012, didn’t you?

You can ignore this, they will then reject your valid appeal, allow you to get the IAS to do the same, but would lose in court.

I did indeed appeal with PoFA 2012, worth just sending the same appeal again to speed it up?

I'll have to go court in the end I assume if they chase it past IAS? I'm fine with that, they'd lose on PoFA 2012 alone.

Personally, I’d ignore, and definitely wouldn’t send the same appeal again. Now they will lie to hope you will cave in and pay. The IAS will cost them £23 even if they do the usual and side with the operator. Then useless debt recovery letters from DCBL (ignore) and equally useless bulk litigator DCB Legal (come back when you get their Letter of Claim). Search the forum to see more about DCB Legal. They initiate the court process but discontinue before having to pay the fee if it’s properly defended which it will be. Their tactics are to scare you into paying up or getting a judgement in default if you ignore.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2025, 12:31:48 pm by jfollows »