Author Topic: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park  (Read 1431 times)

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Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
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Received the below on 5th November.

I'm unsure if it's compliant PoFA 2012, but happy to take guidance.

I was not the driver.

Key dates/info;

Contravention date - 18th October 2024
Notice issue date - 30th October 2024
PCN received - 5th November 2024



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Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #1 on: »
It's non-PoFA. Easy one to defeat... as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Gemini has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Gemini have no hope at IAS, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

No guarantee that they will accept it as they are scammers and are out to get your money.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #2 on: »
As expected, they've pushed back with the following; (my thoughts after)

Quote
We refer to correspondence received from you concerning the above numbered Charge Notice.
Please note that responsibility for this Charge lies with the driver of the vehicle at the time the parking contravention was
observed. However, we are unable to ascertain who the driver was on the date in questions from the information given within
your appeal.
In order for us to process your appeal correctly, please follow the instructions below:
1. Notify the driver of the vehicle that they will need to appeal to us directly, including their FULL NAME (Forename and
Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS within 14 days.
2. If you are representing the driver we require a signed and dated statement from the driver of the vehicle confirming that you
are authorised to appeal on his/her behalf; this needs to be an original signature and not a photocopy or a stamp. The
statement MUST contain the drivers FULL NAME (Forename and Surname) and a valid FULL SERVICEABLE ADDRESS.
Please ensure that correspondence is sent to APCOA Parking, PO Box 815, Wigan, WN1 9WX in order to correctly adhere
with the appeals process.
OR
3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at www.geminiparkingsolutions.com by following the links for "Pay Now" It is
your responsibility to ensure that payment is received within our office by the date specified.
As a gesture of goodwill we have placed the charge on hold for an additional period of 14 Days to enable one of the above
actions to be complied with.
We are willing to re-offer you the original discounted charge of £60 as full and final settlement of this Notice, if payment is
received within our office on or before the 03/12/24.
If payment is not received by this date, the amount payable will revert to £100, payable by 17/12/24. Failure to pay this charge
within the stated times, may result in Debt Recovery action been taken and further costs up to an additional £70.00 been
incurred.
Yours sincerely,
Appeals Department

I'm not too familiar with this side of PCNs/fines/etc (I'm a lot better at dealing with councils!), but I imagine they're trying to corner me into declaring who the driver is. My understanding is, that if I continue to refuse to do so, they won't actually have anyone that they are able to fine. Is this correct?

Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #3 on: »
You can simply ignore them or have a bit of fun at their expense. I already drafted a letter for a similar UKPC request earlier today. Here is the response, adapted for your situation:

Quote
Dear Gemini Appeals Department,

Thank you for your letter dated [date] regarding Parking Charge Reference [Reference]. Your generous "gesture of goodwill" in placing the charge on hold is appreciated, however, as there is no legal merit to your claim, I can assure you that this is entirely unnecessary

Unless there is a competent adult there that can assist you, I will explain why I will not be acceding to your request for the "full name and address of the driver." Asking for information that I am under no legal obligation to provide is, to put it kindly, ambitious.

As I already pointed out in my original appeal, I am appealing as the Registered Keeper of the vehicle, and Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not require me to identify the driver. Attempting to hold me liable without Gemini fully complying with all the requirements of Paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 says a lot about what appears to be gross incompetence by your company. You might want to review the legislation to avoid similar errors in future.

Your failure to meet the statutory requirements means that liability for this charge cannot be transferred to me as the Keeper. It seems you are now fishing for information in an attempt to correct these oversights. Sadly, for you, this isn't how the law works.

I note your insistence on trying to identify the driver, despite having issued a Notice to Keeper (NtK) that fails to comply with PoFA. Without such compliance, you hold no legal basis to transfer liability from the driver to me, the Keeper. While I appreciate your attempt to persuade me into volunteering information that the law does not compel me to provide, I must politely decline.

Your three "options" are noted, though they seem to overlook a fourth and legally sound course of action, that you cancel the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) due to your inability to pursue the matter under the legislation that governs private parking. For the avoidance of doubt:

1. I will not be naming the driver.

2. I do not need to obtain the driver's consent to appeal, as I am under no obligation to identify them in the first place.

3. I certainly will not be paying this speculative invoice.

Additionally, should you choose to reject this appeal, you will be doing nothing more than confirming your own incompetence. I will immediately appeal to the IAS, where you have absolutely no chance of success due to your repeated failures to comply with the law. All you will achieve is wasting your money on the IAS fee in the process.

I suggest that you consider passing this response to an adult who can actually deal with it properly and perhaps even comprehend why you have no hope at IAS. I recommend researching PoFA Paragraph 9, doing your homework, and understanding why your Notice to Keeper is not compliant. Until then, your continued insistence on pursuing this matter borders on the ridiculous and says a lot about the levels of intellect within Gemini.

Since the outcome here is obvious, I suggest saving us both time and effort by cancelling this parking charge immediately. Should the intellectual malnourishment prevail and you refuse, I look forward to receiving an IAS code so an independent appeals assessor can confirm what you clearly cannot grasp.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 08:14:42 am by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #4 on: »
This is Gemini so there won't be a POPLA code as they're an IAS member.

Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #5 on: »
My bad. I had APCOA on my minder some reason. Response amended accordingly.  :-[
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #6 on: »
Gemini's response does say that driver nominations should go to APCOA (from memory the latter bought out the former)

Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #7 on: »
APCOA acquired Gemini Parking Solutions in 2022.

I’m sure mention of either company in the response will make the point.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #8 on: »
Ha! I am enjoying the sarcasm/fury in that reply.

Happy to do the dance with Gemini and will use this reply.

Thank you!

Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #9 on: »
Let's see how they respond with their appeal rejection.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #10 on: »
As expected...

I will post my thoughts later, bit busy this morning!


Quote
Dear Mr XXXX,
Re: Parking Charge Notice Number XXXX (Vehicle: XXXX)

Site: Gunnersbury Park
Contravention date: 18/10/2024
You recently contacted us to appeal the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) XXXX that was issued to the above vehicle
registration on 18/10/2024 at Gunnersbury Park, London, W54NH. This PCN was issued because the vehicle broke the
following parking regulation: Failure to Pay for Duration of Stay.

Our letter dated the 19/11/24 requested you to supply information regarding the driver from the date in question and advised
that proof was to be supplied within 14 days To date you have failed to provide sufficient evidence showing this therefore we
will continue to pursue this Charge.

Having considered all grounds for the appeal you will understand that sadly we are unable to accept your appeal.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and therefore you now have two options: You can pay the
total amount due or you can appeal to an Independent Appeals Service within 21 days. Should you wish to make a second
appeal, this can be done through IAS – the independent appeals service – at www.theias.org/appeal.

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative
dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in
their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to further appeal then you must do so to the IAS, as
outlined here.

Please note that if you wish to appeal to the IAS, you will regrettably no longer be able to pay the charge at the discounted rate of £60.00. Should the IAS's decision not go in your favour, you will then be required to pay the full amount of £100.00. When
parking on private land, the motorist agrees to abide by any clearly displayed conditions of parking in return for permission to
park. This location is private property and is managed by Gemini Parking Solutions London Ltd on behalf of the land owner.

Gemini Parking Solutions fully complies with the guidelines set by the International Parking Community. Please note that
photographic evidence is taken with every PCN that is issued.

Payment at the discounted rate £60.00 can be made within 14 days from the date of this letter. Regrettably payments made
after this period will be for the full amount of £100.00. Failure to pay the amount may result in further costs being incurred and
may also result in Gemini Parking Solutions Ltd, reluctantly instructing a Debt Collection agency to collect any sum due.
Please make Cheques / Postal Orders payable to: Gemini Parking Solutions London Ltd Send Cheques / Postal Orders to:
Payments Department, PO Box 815, Wigan, WN1 9WX. Please write your Name, Address and Parking Charge Notice Number
(PCN) on the rear of all cheques and postal orders. When making payment by post we recommend using the Royal Mail’s
‘Recorded – Signed For’ or ‘Special Delivery’ services. Cash should not be sent through the post.
Yours sincerely,
Appeals Department
Gemini Parking Solutions London Ltd.

Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #11 on: »
Here is a suitable IAS appeal you could use. Some would suggest a more serious approach. However, I have zero respect for the IAS or anyone who purports to be an adjudicator for them. Unlike POPLA, they operate anonymously and their rate of upholding appeals is under 4% which is derisory when compared to POPLA which is around 45%.

Quote
Appeal Against Parking Charge Notice [Reference Number]

Dear Sirs,

This appeal exists solely to expose the procedural incompetence of Gemini Parking Solutions and the flawed nature of this entire process. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle, and I was not the driver on the date of the alleged contravention. There is no legal obligation for me to identify the driver, and neither Gemini nor the IAS can assume or infer otherwise.

1. Non-Compliance with PoFA

Gemini’s Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not compliant with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), and they therefore have no legal right to transfer liability to me as the keeper.

Failure to issue the NtK within the relevant period:

The alleged contravention occurred on 18/10/2024. The NtK was issued on 30/10/2024. Even under the most generous interpretation of deemed service, this is beyond the 14-day "relevant period" set out in Paragraph 9(4)(b) of PoFA.

Failure to include mandatory information:

The NtK lacks the full details required under Paragraph 9(2) of PoFA, rendering it legally insufficient.

Gemini Parking Solutions’ blatant disregard for statutory requirements is their problem, not mine.

2. I Am Not the Driver

For the avoidance of doubt, I was not the driver on the date of the alleged contravention. However, I decline to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company. There is no legal obligation for me to do so, and there is persuasive appeals case law supports this position.

Any assumption or inference by Gemini or the IAS that I, as the keeper, must also be the driver is both legally unfounded and embarrasingly desperate.

3. Gemini’s Lack of Evidence

Gemini has failed to provide credible evidence:

• Of the alleged contravention.
• That their signage at the site meets the requirements of the IPC Code of Practice.
• Of a contractual agreement between the driver and Gemini Parking Solutions.
• That they hold a valid contract flowing from the landowner to issue PCNs in their own name.

This entire case rests on speculative invoicing, not legal merit.

4. The IAS’s Role

I have no illusions about the IAS process. It is well known that the IAS appeals process is designed to protect IPC members at the expense of fairness and legality. The anonymity of the adjudicator and the IAS’s abysmally low success rate for appellants suggest this appeal will likely be rejected, regardless of the facts.

However, I am submitting this appeal as a matter of principle, fully confident that a real court—presided over by a qualified judge—will promptly dismiss Gemini’s baseless claim.

5. Conclusion

1. Gemini Parking Solutions has failed to comply with PoFA, and liability cannot be transferred to me as the keeper.

2. I was not the driver, and I am under no obligation to name the driver.

3. The PCN is legally unenforceable and must be cancelled.

Should this appeal be rejected, it will serve only to further highlight the IAS’s lack of independence and Gemini’s predatory practices. I look forward to addressing this matter in court, where proper legal standards apply.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #12 on: »
Happy to update with the following;

Thank you for your appeal. Due to further information Gemini Parking Solutions London LTD has confirmed they will no longer be pursuing the matter and the parking charge has been cancelled.



Thanks to @b789, I did use your template but I have to admit I was a bit nervous of sending as is, so I did tone it back a bit!
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Re: Gemini Parking Solutions - Gunnersbury Park
« Reply #13 on: »
They don't like it up 'em Pike! Of course they withdrew. They don't have a chance if this were ever to go to court. The IAS probably advised them as such.

A win is a win. Well done.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain