Author Topic: Civil Enforcement Ltd. PCN, Permit Holders Only, Tavistock St, Bedford, MK40 2RR.  (Read 456 times)

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PCN Issued 22/02/2020 (no record of this).
This is a company owned vehicle, allocated to one driver.
We have no record or any previous letters regarding this issue.
Legal Claim received at my home address January 2025.
See Claim and our response.

We have given the drivers details, however, they have not accepted this.
Not sure if its relevant.. the claim went to my home address and not our work address.

I am not sure where I stand and all advice is welcome?


https://imgur.com/gallery/civil-enforcement-ltd-pcn-permit-holders-only-tavistock-st-bedford-mk40-2rr-2-ze5BRKz

https://imgur.com/gallery/civil-enforcement-ltd-pcn-permit-holders-only-tavistock-st-bedford-mk40-2rr-zBTlEOo





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I may have this the wrong way around, but bear with me...

Based on your post and the poor excuse for a 'defence' in the Acknowledgement of Service (AoS), you are saying that you were the driver but the Claim should have been issued to the Company, who are the Registered Keeper (RK). If you are not the RK, then the (the company) must have transferred liability to you as the driver and included your address for service.

The Parking Charge Notice (PCN) was not responded to and/or not paid. At some point a Letter of Claim (LoC) would have been sent to the address that the Claim has been sent to, which I'm assuming is your home address. Did you receive the LoC? If you did, did you respond to it?

Once the claim is issued, only the named defendant can respond and it is too late to try and transfer liability for the claim to anyone else.

Normally, I'd tell you that you don't have anything to worry about because any claim issued by DCB Legal, as long as it is defended, no matter how pathetically, will eventually be discontinued. However, this case has been allocated to St Helens for a telephone hearing which is extremely unfortunate and unfair.

When you submitted your N180 Directions Questionnaire, what did you put down for the following questions:

• Whose name... "To be completed by, or on behalf of"?
• "Who is the"... which tick box?
• D1. Do you consider that this claim is suitable for determination without a hearing, such as; by a judge reading and considering the case papers, witness statements and other documents filed by the parties, making a decision, and giving a note of reasons for that decision?
• F1. At which County Court hearing centre would you prefer the small claims hearing to take place and why?
• When you signed, which tick box did you tick?

When you've answered the questions above and clarified who is who and who responded, I can then offer further advice.

 
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Hi b789,

Thank you for your help so far.

The vehicle in question is a company vehicle, the vehicle was owned by my company and issued to our UK Account Manager, he acknowledges the parking ticket and is ok to take responsibility.

The paperwork was sent/received at my home address, I responded and updated to our company address, at the same time gave the drivers information. The Loc was not received, only the court information.

• Whose name... "To be completed by, or on behalf of"? Was addressed to the Company Name and I singed as myself.
• "Who is the"... which tick box? I intend to defend all of the claim.

• D1. Do you consider that this claim is suitable for determination without a hearing, such as; by a judge reading and considering the case papers, witness statements and other documents filed by the parties, making a decision, and giving a note of reasons for that decision?
• F1. At which County Court hearing centre would you prefer the small claims hearing to take place and why? The address was already filled in to the Northampton Court.
• When you signed, which tick box did you tick? I intend to defend all of the claim.


As I mentioned... correct me if I'm wrong, and I am still confused. We need to be clear who is who in this matter.

From what I can now gather, you are the company owner and therefore you can represent the company. Your company "own" the vehicle. However, there is no such thing as a register of "owners". The vehicle is registered to your company, which is fine. However, you mention that "paperwork" arrived at your home address. Are you referring to the original Notice to Keeper (NtK)?

If os, this would be because the vehicle may have been registered in your company name but you must also have used your home address when registering it.

The vehicle is assigned to one of your employees and they were driving at the time of the alleged contravention. They are happy to take responsibility for the PCN.

When you say you "...responded and updated to our company address, at the same time gave the drivers information.", how did you do this? Did you submit a data rectification notice to the DPO of the parking operator, instructing them to update their records with the correct address for service and to erase the old address? There highlighted words are important and should be used in any data rectification notice. It must be sent to the DPO of the company... was it?

You also say that the drivers details were also given at the same time. So, who was this "information" given to? Did you follow the instructions on the NtK on how to inform the parking operator of the drivers detail if, you, the Keeper, were not the driver?

You then tell us that no LoC was ever received but the N1SDT Claim Form was received. At which address was that received and in whose name is it? Is it in the company name or your name as an individual?

We seem to be getting confused with the N9 acknowledgement form and N180 Directions Questionnaire. For the N9 Acknowledgement of Service (AoS), what did you put for: "Defendant’s full name if different from the name given on the claim form"?

Did you then put the company address as "Address to which documents about this claim should be sent"?

On the 'defence and counterclaim' form you put the following: "This vehicle was not driven by me. It was driven by a manager. We would have sent the details in accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. The responsible person is: blah blah." Unfortunately, that is not a defence.

All this happened back in January and at some stage, you will have been sent an N180 Directions Questionnaire. The questions I asked you yesterday were in relation to that form. I asked you what answers did you put in that form before returning it to the CNBC? You've not answered those questions, so I repeat them here:


When you submitted your N180 Directions Questionnaire, what did you put down for the following questions:

• Whose name... "To be completed by, or on behalf of"?
• "Who is the"... which tick box?
• D1. Do you consider that this claim is suitable for determination without a hearing, such as; by a judge reading and considering the case papers, witness statements and other documents filed by the parties, making a decision, and giving a note of reasons for that decision?
• F1. At which County Court hearing centre would you prefer the small claims hearing to take place and why?
• When you signed, which tick box did you tick?

When you've answered the questions above and clarified who is who and who responded, I can then offer further advice.

A lot of clarification required and questions need answering, in order to try and unravel this mess.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Hi b789,

Thank you for bearing with me.

Here is the N180

https://imgur.com/a/iXpXJkd


As I mentioned... correct me if I'm wrong, and I am still confused. We need to be clear who is who in this matter.

From what I can now gather, you are the company owner and therefore you can represent the company. Your company "own" the vehicle. However, there is no such thing as a register of "owners". The vehicle is registered to your company, which is fine. However, you mention that "paperwork" arrived at your home address. Are you referring to the original Notice to Keeper (NtK)? Correct, I am the company owner (and it was a company car). The paperwork has been issued to my home address/not company, and this may not even be relevant?

If os, this would be because the vehicle may have been registered in your company name but you must also have used your home address when registering it. Correct

The vehicle is assigned to one of your employees and they were driving at the time of the alleged contravention. They are happy to take responsibility for the PCN. YES.

When you say you "...responded and updated to our company address, at the same time gave the drivers information.", how did you do this? Did you submit a data rectification notice to the DPO of the parking operator, instructing them to update their records with the correct address for service and to erase the old address? There highlighted words are important and should be used in any data rectification notice. It must be sent to the DPO of the company... was it? NO, I updated on the court paperwork that arrived. Our Company is registered at companies house with the correct address information, I was surprised to receive information at my home address.

You also say that the drivers details were also given at the same time. So, who was this "information" given to? Did you follow the instructions on the NtK on how to inform the parking operator of the drivers detail if, you, the Keeper, were not the driver? When I completed the Claim Form in January, I gave the correct company and Driver information then.

You then tell us that no LoC was ever received but the N1SDT Claim Form was received. At which address was that received and in whose name is it? Is it in the company name or your name as an individual? All paperwork is being issued to my home address, I have attached the N180 to this thread.

We seem to be getting confused with the N9 acknowledgement form and N180 Directions Questionnaire. For the N9 Acknowledgement of Service (AoS), what did you put for: "Defendant’s full name if different from the name given on the claim form"? Yes, I did get confused, N180 attached.

Did you then put the company address as "Address to which documents about this claim should be sent"? When I completed the claim form back in January it asked 'Address to which documents about this claim should be sent' I put our company address details here.

On the 'defence and counterclaim' form you put the following: "This vehicle was not driven by me. It was driven by a manager. We would have sent the details in accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. The responsible person is: blah blah." Unfortunately, that is not a defence. OK.

All this happened back in January and at some stage, you will have been sent an N180 Directions Questionnaire. The questions I asked you yesterday were in relation to that form. I asked you what answers did you put in that form before returning it to the CNBC? You've not answered those questions, so I repeat them here:


• Whose name... "To be completed by, or on behalf of"? COMPANY NAME
• "Who is the"... which tick box? DEFENDANT.
• D1. Do you consider that this claim is suitable for determination without a hearing, such as; by a judge reading and considering the case papers, witness statements and other documents filed by the parties, making a decision, and giving a note of reasons for that decision? YES.
• F1. At which County Court hearing centre would you prefer the small claims hearing to take place and why? MILTON KEYNES
• When you signed, which tick box did you tick? I DID NOT SIGN ANY BOX/ I LEFT THEM BLANK.



Answering "Yes" to D1 has committed you to a telephone hearing which is terrible. You have almost zero chance of being successful at a telephone hearing. I hope I'm wrong but I would not hold out much hope.

You put "0" in response to F3. So you are happy for the judge to make their decision without hearing your evidence, simply relying on what you have put in your defence and Witness Statement?

Unfortunately, you have made a right mess of this and should have sought advice before you even responded to the claim.

The reason the "paperwork" has been arriving at your address is because the vehicle is registered to your address, irrespective of whether it is in your own or company name.

Once the claim is filed, it is too late to try and get the driver to won up for it. That ship sailed long ago and should have been done when you first received the PCN. It could have been done at any time up to the point a claim was served.

Unless you send a data rectification notice to the DPO of the claimant, before any claim has been submitted, then they will just keep using your home address. It matters not one iota what address your company is registered at with Companies House. They will only use the address on the V5C unless a DRN is submitted. I also suggest that if you don't want other PCNs or more serious notices coming to your home address in future, you change the address on the V5C with the DVLA.

As I mentioned, providing the drivers details after a claim has been submitted is too late. The claim is filed and submitted to whoever is named on the claim form, whether that be an individual or a company. You still have not answered my question about who is the defendant in this matter. You, as a named individual or your company?

This is getting silly because you are not even answering questions raised directly in the narrative:

Quote
We seem to be getting confused with the N9 acknowledgement form and N180 Directions Questionnaire. For the N9 Acknowledgement of Service (AoS), what did you put for: "Defendant’s full name if different from the name given on the claim form"? Yes, I did get confused, N180 attached.

That has not answered my question!

This has become unnecessarily confused. You're not responding to basic questions, and your paperwork contradicts itself throughout. I say this with no malice — but from a legal and procedural standpoint, this is now a complete mess.

This is the best I think I can advise:

1. Confirm who the named defendant is on the claim form. This is essential. If the defendant is the company, then all documents and submissions must be made in the company’s name, and the person acting must clearly state their position (e.g. director).

2. Write to the court immediately and confirm the correct address for service is the company’s trading or registered office if you don't want any further correspondence coming to your home address. This will help ensure future correspondence goes to the right place.

3. Prepare and submit a properly written Witness Statement (WS). It should be on behalf of the defendant (the company if that’s the named party) and signed by someone authorised to act for the company, such as a director. The statement must explain the company’s position clearly and include any relevant facts and evidence. Avoid saying “I didn’t drive” or “I sent the driver’s details” unless you can prove it and unless it is directly relevant to the claim.

4. If you, the person who submitted the defence, intend to speak at the hearing, you must notify the court that you will be giving evidence and correct the “0” witness figure. This can be done in a short covering letter to the court with the WS.

5. Do not rely on saying the driver was someone else. It is too late to transfer liability. The company (or you if it is indoor name) is the named defendant and will be held liable if the claim is upheld.

6. Unless the claim is clearly invalid (e.g. wrong party, no contract, no breach), consider whether it is worth trying to settle before the hearing to avoid judgment.

7. Be prepared for the telephone hearing. Have all documents to hand, be clear on the facts, and focus only on relevant points. Do not make personal or emotional arguments.

If help is needed preparing a proper witness statement or correspondence to the court, get it now. There is still a chance to limit the damage, but only with clear and correct action from this point forward.


Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Answering "Yes" to D1 has committed you to a telephone hearing which is terrible.
Has it not committed them to an (even worse) judgement on the papers, without a hearing at all?

Yes, especially as they put the number of witnesses that will give evidence (including the defendant) as zero.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain