Author Topic: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.  (Read 6430 times)

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Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #60 on: »
Why do you suppose that just because your Plan B appeal to EPS and your Plan A request for Jardines to intervene is a "last hope"?

You still have Plans C and D.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #61 on: »
We still don't have answers to the following:

The 14-minute gym session, and
The elapsed times of the other PCNs.

Presumably if you are a teacher and are going abroad then you have a job, employer and place of residence. You might care to share this with the creditor now and say that you'll update them in the near future with the effective date on which all correspondence must be sent to this address. There is no reason for your parents' address (and them potentially) to stay in the firing line.

Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #62 on: »
My worry is that if I appeal further, the fine goes to £100. If I do receive the expected 10 (still awaiting 5 more which they are yet to send as I know I parked there on more days - latest being Wednesday 13th March, 11 days ago now, and according to dates on the PCNs received it can be up to 7 days that they issue the PCN), my total will be £1,000 which is an immense fine.

If not then, then court: but is my case strong enough?

I was not in the gym for 14-minutes.
Other PCNS timings:
6:19:51 - 6:31:53
6:16:09 - 6:27:21
6:21:44 - 6:35:15
6:12:14 - 6:24:30

Interestingly, the image in the photo provided as 'time out' has a time stamp on it that has the same time as the 'time in' photo.

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Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #63 on: »
Further, yes I would much rather have this sorted before I leave the country especially due to the assets I am leaving.

Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #64 on: »
The bribe discount is offered in order to get you to pay into the scam. If there is a problem with the time stamps, can you evidence this? You say you were at the gym for longer than the time stamps suggest (likely as most people don't do 10 minute gym sessions).

Is there a log or anything at the gym that you check in with when you attend? Does your Google Maps app have your data for those dates? Does your car have an app that logs journeys. Can you provide any evidence of the times you were at the gym?

only you can provide this information. If, as you say and it appears, there is a discrepancy between the times that you entered and left the premises, that is a valid defence to have the PCNs voided. Do you know if it is the same camera that recored the entry and the exit or is it two separate cameras?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #65 on: »
You can seek to use dodgy timings to cast doubt on the reliability of the parking company's evidence. One potential pitfall to navigate is how to do this in a way that helps - an argument that comes across as "I was actually parked where the parking company say I shouldn't have been for longer than they claim" might not help your case. But a case that uses the fact that their evidence doesn't seem to correspond accurately with the times the car was there, alongside the other arguments around signage and lack of contract (forbidding signage) might be more compelling.

I note you mention of being keen for the matter to be resolved before you move abroad - unless you have any luck with the IAS (which is rare), I'd be very surprised if the matter is resolved before then. Whether the company do issue a claim remains to be seen - I'm not sure how litigious they normally are, although 10 tickets can tempt them.

Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #66 on: »
Everytime I enter and exit the gym, I scan a QR code which should definitely be available data from my gym.

I agree @DWMB2. I fear that, if any anything, it just heightens the guilt.

But yes, the camera seems to be erroneous.

There seems to be only one camera - at least only one that I’ve seen. Top left of image. White one I think is CCTV.

I agree. If it was one ticket, I would be a lot calmer. 10, however…they may put some effort into it. I’m aware of their ‘discount’ tactics, especially as they threaten with the full price if you don’t take it to the ‘independent’ body.

Think I’ll continue to liase with Jardines - the company who employ EPS.

There are an immense amount of people also going through this at my gym and people still parking in those spaces! I try to warn them and I’m even considering placing notes on their cars.

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Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #67 on: »
H C Andersen, the OP has now addressed the issue of the timings on the PCNs four separate times:

The driver arrives around 6:10am and leaves around 8am each day.

As mentioned in other comments, the time gap seems to be around 10-14 minutes in terms of picture taken. To me, it reads as if perhaps they give an 'allowance' of some sort. The contravention time stamp is marked as the latter time. I, of course, stay at the gym longer than this.

I was not in the gym for 14-minutes.

But yes, the camera seems to be erroneous.

Unless they keep a written log of exactly when they enter and leave the gym each day, it's unlikely you're going to get any more specific timings than those the OP has already offered.

There is clearly an issue with the 'from' and 'to' times. From the photos, and the information provided thus far, it seems that the parking operator is using CCTV, rather than any sort of automated ANPR system. What I would suspect is happening (although this is of course my reckoning rather than necessarily fact), is that there is an operator manually checking the footage - they capture an image when they spot a vehicle parking up that shouldn't be there, then snap another once it's been there longer than the consideration period they offer (say, 10 minutes), essentially doing what a warden would do before slapping a ticket on the windscreen, but here doing it all remotely.

Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #68 on: »
Morning,

So, could they not rebuttal and say 'that is irrelevant. You were still parked in our space while not registering your details at the kiosk.'?

I mentioned the camera faults in my appeal to which they do not acknowledge that aspect.

I also mention how they do not follow best practice of providing signs at enterances to notifiy of substantial changes, their neglible complaints process and they do not provide a template of how to appeal in their rejection letter as advised by CoP.

This was their rejection letter.

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Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #69 on: »
The person liable is the driver.

Uniquely, statute in the form of [Schedule 4 to] the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 provides that 'the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount [the parking charge] as remains unpaid'.

Nothing to do with the circumstances of the events, this is purely procedural.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2024, 10:47:49 pm by andy_foster »

Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #70 on: »
Annoyingly, I have no way to contact them besides calling an 0845 number (which I am sure they will place me on hold for a considerable amound of time) or writing to them.

Jardines are yet to receive a response from them.

Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #71 on: »
The person liable is the driver.
Did the appeals name the driver?

Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #72 on: »
Annoyingly, two or three did. They got the driver when they asked via a dropdown menu: 'driver - keeper - hirer'

Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #73 on: »
Frankly, from the points we've discussed so far, the one that seems to have the most legs in my view is one around the prohibitive nature of the signage, meaning that no contract was formed.

Re: Five PCNs - parked outside my gym.
« Reply #74 on: »
This was their rejection letter.

The "'price' of parking" is a blatant lie. There is no offer of the right for those who do not enter their details to park for the price of £100 - the signs is prohibitive and states that the charge is for breach of the terms.

I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.
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