Author Topic: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road  (Read 3730 times)

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Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #15 on: »
See link below, for just the NTK done as per your request.
I am not able to embed document, but I’ve put this separately in a new post.
https://imgur.com/a/Z7hqXWh

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #16 on: »
Good. Now we can see the NtK which is crucial and critical as it is the "invoice" they have sent for the alleged debt.

Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #17 on: »
Without having read it all, is this the first communication you received for the parking on this particular day? If it is, and you have identified yourself as the driver, you have blown both feet off on a sure winning point if you'd only appealed as the Keeper without identifying the driver.

The issue date of the NtK means that it was not "given" within the required timeframe in PoFA for them to be able to hold the Keeper liable. Unfortunately, I fear that you blabbed the drivers identity when you appealed.

Please have a look at all the other NtKs you received. Check the "contravention date" and the "issue date". If the number of days from the contravention date to the issue date plus two working days is greater than 14, then the NtKs are not fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA. If you have identified as the driver, this becomes harder to resolve but still winnable.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #18 on: »
And can you please confirm that you are the registered keeper of the vehicle with the V5C in your possession?

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #19 on: »
Oh, I definitely should have asked for help much earlier.
It is the first time I have been in a situation like this as I don’t normally try to boycot rules.
I have told them I was the owner and driver at the time of contravention, as I didn’t think it was realistic that I would be held liable.
I can confirm the V5C is in my name, it is in my possession and this was the first communication I have received with respect to this contravention.
Any defence would be helpful at this point please.
Thank you.
I will go check all the NTKs now and confirm how many of them are compliant as per formula below

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #20 on: »
No, don't bother checking. If you've identified yourself as the driver rather than just the Keeper, it is not going to make a difference. The driver is always liable. If they haven't fully complied with PoFA, then they can't transfer the liability from the unknown (to Excel) driver to the known Keeper.

What we now need to establish is the dates that all the NtKs were received and whether there is any point in trying to appeal. Not that any appeal is going to succeed. This is only going to be resolved in the ultimate dispute resolution service... the small claims track of the county court, where a truly independent judge will decide whether you owe Excel a debt or not.

So, please give us the "issue" dates of the PCNs as it is that date that determines the appeal period.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #21 on: »
They were issued on 14th, 16th, 19th and 23rd August

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #22 on: »
And how many days do they give you to appeal? It'll be on the back of the NtK. You can then work out whether you still have any time left.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #23 on: »
I have appealed it with them, they gave me 14 days at the time I believe.
They rejected my appeal and referred it to the IAS.
I provided my defence to the IAS and they have also stated their case.
Please see link for my appeal, their rejection, my statement to the IAS and their stated case, I that order.

https://imgur.com/a/MMBVxDP

At this point, I am supposed to provide any further arguments to the IAS and it will go to arbitration for a ruling, that is the stage we are at now.
Only yesterday when I read their arguments to the IAS did I realise the gravity of the issue I am facing therefore sought help.
I hope it it not too late now. :-[

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #24 on: »
IMO, you need to get back to legal principles here.

A contract is deemed formed by the driver's actions i.e. parking and leaving the car.

This binds BOTH parties i.e. the driver and the operator.

It does NOT lie with the operator to amend the terms of the contract unilaterally. By their previous actions (in accepting payment on exit) they have CONDONED yours i.e. paying on exit. In effect by your and their actions you both amended the written terms and this bound you both.

IMO, prior to them responding to your first appeal your legitimate expectation was that you could pay on exit and therefore there was no legal basis on which to issue a parking charge because there was no breach of your contract with them.

I would focus on the above with IAS.

Try and get evidence as to your use of this site during the 2 years. But this doesn't have to be hard evidence(although this is preferable) because ultimately in court it's balance of probabilities and IMO I can't see how they could legitimately deny accepting payment on exit for 2 years.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2024, 08:32:12 am by H C Andersen »

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #25 on: »
Thank you.
The earliest VAT receipt I have is dated 30 Sept 2022, and i have paid on exit since then for sure. I have all the receipts for payments made since then.
I may have earlier, I can have a look.

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #26 on: »
I wouldn't hold out much hope for the IAS to uphold any appeal. This is most likely going to be resolved in court. Here is my opinion on defence points that Oleigh will be relying on, as and when a defence is needed:

Defence Overview

Oleigh has been parking at a private car park owned and managed by Excel Parking Services for the last 3 years, several times a week. Over this period, Oleigh consistently paid for parking. On the advice of an attendant, Oleigh followed a practice of paying for parking on exit rather than immediately upon entry. Recently, Oleigh received 14 Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) for failing to pay within 10 minutes of entry, despite paying for all the hours spent in the car park. Oleigh’s appeal was rejected, with Excel Parking stating that she breached their terms by not adhering to the 10-minute payment rule.

The following points would present a robust defence and you can try them if you are going to try an IAS appeal:

1. Customary Practice and Promissory Estoppel
Oleigh followed a consistent practice of paying on exit, based on the advice of an Excel Parking attendant. This established a reasonable expectation that this practice was valid and would not incur PCns. For over two years, this advice was followed without any issues, creating reliance on Excel's representation. Under the principle of promissory estoppel, Excel Parking should be prevented from enforcing a PCN for behaviour they had implicitly accepted for an extended period.

2. Failure to Provide Notice of Change in Enforcement
Oleigh's practice of paying on exit had been ongoing for 2 years without any PCN. If Excel Parking intended to enforce a strict 10-minute payment rule, they should have provided clear and explicit notice of this change. The sudden enforcement of this rule without warning is unreasonable and unfair. A sudden shift in enforcement behaviour with no formal notice should invalidate the claim.

3. Unfair Contract Terms (Consumer Rights Act 2015)
The charges imposed by Excel Parking are disproportionate to the alleged breach. Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, terms that impose disproportionately high charges for minor breaches are deemed unfair. Since Oleigh paid for all parking sessions, Excel Parking did not suffer any financial loss, making the charges purely punitive and unenforceable. Additionally, if the signage was not clear about the 10-minute rule, the term would be considered unclear and unfair under the CRA 2015.

4. No Genuine Pre-estimate of Loss
Excel Parking has admitted that Oleigh paid for all parking sessions, so there was no financial loss. The charges are therefore penal rather than compensatory. Under contract law, penalties that do not reflect a genuine pre-estimate of loss are generally unenforceable. In this case, the £100 per PCN is excessive given that Oleigh made full payment for all parking sessions.

5. Unfairness of the PCNs Under Signage and Clarity Standards (PoFA 2012)
The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) and the IPC Code of Practice require that signage be clear and legible, allowing drivers to understand the terms they are agreeing to. If Oleigh was given verbal advice from an attendant that contradicted the signage, then the signage was not adequately communicating the correct process. Courts have ruled that terms which impose onerous conditions (like a strict 10-minute rule) must be clearly and prominently displayed (J Spurling Ltd v Bradshaw, the 'red hand' rule). If Excel Parking's signage did not clearly explain the 10-minute rule or make it prominent, this weakens their case for enforcing the charges.

6. Reliance on Credible Testimony
While Oleigh lacks direct written evidence of the conversation with the attendant, the court can accept credible oral testimony as evidence. Oleigh should provide a detailed Witness Statement (WS) describing the conversation, the advice given, and the reliance on that advice. Civil courts operate on a "balance of probabilities," and the court will weigh the credibility of Oleigh’s account against the lack of evidence to the contrary from Excel. Excel Parking is unlikely to produce evidence disproving Oleigh's claim, as they would not have a record of every verbal interaction between their attendants and motorists. Therefore, it is more likely than not that Oleigh’s account of events is accurate.

7. Excel’s Inability to Provide Contradictory Evidence
Excel Parking is unlikely to have evidence that disproves Oleigh’s account of the advice from the attendant. They are unlikely to possess records showing that Oleigh was not advised to pay on exit, which strengthens Oleigh’s case. Without any formal documentation or a written policy that contradicts Oleigh's claim, the court is more likely to side with Oleigh, especially if there were no previous PCNs issued over the two-year period where Oleigh followed the informal practice.

8. Inconsistent Enforcement and Failure to Provide Warnings
For two years, Oleigh parked and paid on exit without receiving any PCNs, suggesting that Excel Parking accepted this method of payment. If Excel now claims that this was a violation of their terms, they should have issued warnings or PCNs during the earlier period. The failure to do so indicates that the enforcement of the rule has been inconsistent and unfair. This sudden change in enforcement without warning creates an argument that Excel failed to properly notify Oleigh of any change in policy, which should have been communicated if they intended to enforce the 10-minute rule strictly.

9. Breach of Legitimate Expectation
Oleigh had a legitimate expectation that the advice provided by the attendant was valid and that paying on exit was acceptable. Given that no previous PCNs were issued for following this practice, Oleigh reasonably believed that this was in accordance with Excel Parking’s rules. Excel’s failure to clarify or notify Oleigh of any changes to this practice should invalidate the PCNs.

10. Proportionality and Mitigation of Loss
Even if the court finds that Oleigh technically breached the terms by not paying within 10 minutes, Excel Parking has a duty to mitigate any loss. In this case, no financial loss occurred since Oleigh made full payment for all parking sessions. Pursuing 14 PCNs for a minor technicality is disproportionate and excessive, and it further suggests that the enforcement of the PCN is punitive rather than compensatory.

11. The Charge is Disproportionate to Breach
The imposition of 14 PCNs for what amounts to a minor breach (timing of payment) is excessive and disproportionate. Courts have generally viewed excessive charges unfavourably, especially when they result in absurd outcomes. Oleigh paid for all parking sessions, meaning that no financial harm was done to Excel Parking, and the issuance of multiple PCNs for such a minor issue goes against principles of fairness.

Conclusion:

It will be argued that Oleigh had a reasonable expectation that paying upon exit was allowed, based on the advice from an attendant and this practice was accepted for over 2 years. The charges issued by Excel Parking are disproportionate, and the enforcement of the strict 10-minute rule without prior notice or warning is unfair. Furthermore, Excel Parking’s failure to suffer any financial loss, combined with the excessive and penal nature of the PCNs, makes their claim untenable.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #27 on: »
It can probably be factored into one of the above points (all of which seem good), but I'd also make mention of the Beavis case and commercial justification (or in this case, lack thereof) - you can bet your bottom dollar Excel will reference Beavis with the intention of supporting their case, after all.

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #28 on: »
Thank you so much.
These have been very helpful.
I plan to use some of these arguments in my appeal to the IAS to see if this makes a difference to their judgement.
Unless you advise against it.
I guess I potentially have to prepare myself for court.
Thanks again.
I appreciate the help I have received.
I only wish I sought help earlier.

Re: Excel Parking Services - Bakers Road
« Reply #29 on: »
Unless you advise against it.
Your chances of them accepting an appeal are very low. If you wish to appeal to them that is your choice, so personally I neither advise against or in favour of appealing.