Author Topic: Excel Parking PCN - Took longer than 5 minutes to pay - Feethams Leise Car Park, Darlington  (Read 121 times)

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eggybread123

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On the 21st August 2024, upon entering the car park, the driver found a space, parked up, and explored how to pay. The payment took 17 minutes to process as the driver had to locate a machine, take down the code, load the app, find signal of which the driver couldn't until they went to the leisure centre and joined the wifi, whilst getting two children ready to go swimming at the leisure centre. The driver eventually paid for 3 hours parking and left the carpark within 3 hours of arriving into the car park.

On the 30th August i received the parking notice from Excel parking (PDF attached)

As the registered keeper I appealed this charge on the 10/09/2024, albeit as I had misunderstood the charge and thought that the notice was for the driver not paying for parking, of which I have evidence of payment.

On the 21/09/2024 my appeal was dismissed https://imgur.com/a/AH4SrIq

On the 23rd October as registered keeper I was sent a letter from DCBL acting on behalf of Excel Parking https://imgur.com/a/2Sqholq

On the 07 Jan 2025 I was issued a Claim Form for a Civil National Business Centre claim from Excel Parking. Claiming a total £259.40 (£174.40 claim + 35.00 claim fee + 50 legal fee)

I have not corresponded with Excel or DCBL since my initial appeal.

image of signage: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipOXXhGI9hFl-m0svDWjiGtQGdOwbY1vPIguOXQl=s2880-w2880-h1514

google maps street view :https://maps.app.goo.gl/nVCbSWVajRDM3suH8
« Last Edit: January 10, 2025, 05:32:51 pm by eggybread123 »

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Dave65

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This 5 minute to pay is rather ridiculous at times, they have not lost any money through this.
The claim amount would be challenged in any defence against the £70 part as many courts in the past have not aloud this.


b789

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Welcome. Please show us the N1SDT Claim Form you received. Only redact your personal details, the claim number, your VRM and the MCOL password. Leave everything else showing, especially the Particulars of Claim (PoC) and all dates, especially the issue date.

Has Excel issued the claim themselves or have they used a bulk litigator such as Elms Legal or DCB Legal? You will know this by the name in the address for correspondence to send to, if it is not blank.

You have not shown us the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) that was received or the wording you put in your appeal. It helps us to advise accordingly if that information is provided.

This scam by Excel Parking is well known. Your photo of the sign has cropped the terms on the right side which will show the clause requiring payment within 5 minutes of entering the car park although they are repeated in minuscule text near the bottom of the sign. That clause is considered a "penalty clause", (although interpreted by some judges as simply a clause that simply "penalises" the driver. Either way it is easily defended.

Under English law, a penalty clause is one that imposes a detriment on a party for breaching a contract, where that detriment is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss or is disproportionate to any legitimate interest of the other party. A clause that "penalises the driver if they breach it", inherently suggests the clause imposes a penalty for non-compliance. This aligns with the essence of a penalty clause.

Any assertion that the clause "is not a penalty clause" but "penalises the driver" conflates the clause's punitive nature with its enforceability. If the clause's purpose is to penalise rather than compensate for actual loss, it is, by definition, a penalty clause.

In light of Cavendish Square v Makdessi and ParkingEye v Beavis, the clause should be examined as follows:

1. Legitimate Interest:

• Does the 5-minute limit serve a legitimate interest of the parking operator (e.g., ensuring prompt payment or turnover of parking spaces)?

While there may be some legitimate interest, the clause's effect of penalising non-compliance, particularly given the practical impossibility of compliance, suggests it is disproportionate.

2. Proportionality:

• Is the detriment imposed (e.g., a fine or charge) out of proportion to the legitimate interest?

The time limit starting from the ANPR camera entry, combined with the impracticality of complying, means that the clause is unreasonable and therefore, punitive.

3. Practical Feasibility:

• The clause requires actions (finding a space, reading terms, setting up payment) that are almost impossible to complete within 5 minutes. This undermines the fairness of the clause and its enforceability.

Argument as to why the Clause is a Penalty

• The strict 5-minute timeframe effectively sets up drivers to fail, especially considering the logistical realities of parking and reading extensive contractual terms.

• The operator suffers no tangible loss if the payment is made later, undermining any argument that the charge represents a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

• The clause appears to deter breaches rather than protect a legitimate interest, making it punitive and unenforceable.

How to Challenge the Clause if it goes to court

• You would highlight the practical impossibility of complying with the clause, rendering it inherently unfair.

• You would argue that the charge imposed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and is disproportionate to any legitimate interest.

• You would refer to Consumer Rights Act 2015, which requires terms to be fair and transparent. An unachievable requirement is neither.

So, if the clause penalises the driver for breaching it and imposes an unachievable requirement, it is inherently a penalty clause, as its purpose is punitive rather than compensatory or proportional to any legitimate interest.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2025, 11:55:01 am by b789 »
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eggybread123

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Hello thank you for your reply.

Here at the answers to your points raised:

Please show us the N1SDT Claim Form you received. - https://files.catbox.moe/9iwdm2.pdf

Has Excel issued the claim themselves or have they used a bulk litigator such as Elms Legal or DCB Legal? DCB Legal Ltd

You have not shown us the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) that was received - https://files.catbox.moe/9tgsim.pdf

Appeal wording: unfortunately I did not keep a record of this as I thought it was an admin error and that it was a PCN for the driver not paying, I challenged on this basis saying the driver did pay and I attached proof of payment. It was only when my appeal was rejected that I realised it was the longer than 5 minutes aspect not non payment.

b789

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With an issue date of 7th January, you have until 26th January to submit your Acknowledgement of Service (AoS). Follow the instructions in the linked PDF to submit your AoS:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Having submitted your AoS, you will then have until 4pm on Monday 10th February to submit your defence.

Let us know when you have submitted your defence and we will provide a suitable defence.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

mickR

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Having submitted your AoS, you will then have until 4pm on Monday 10th February to submit your defence.

Let us know when you have submitted your defence and we will provide a suitable defence.

did you mean AoS?
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Dave65

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Excel have a record of this 5 minutes.
There was a small claims case in Sheffield recently about a NHS manager who took 24 minutes to complete his payment on the app.
The judge dismissed the case.

"Driver fined £268 after delay with parking app"

Also, in the media and on tv the BPA looks like they are going to alter the CoP.  Lets see what they come up with.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:28:41 am by Dave65 »