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Hi all,
I, the registered keeper of the car, have received a PCN from Excel Parking, requesting £100, or £60 if paid early. This is because my vehicle was used in the customer car park without paying for a parking ticket, and remained there for 40 minutes, which is outside of the 10 minute limit, but not exceeding the 1 hour parking limit as stated on the signs.
I am not sure if any form of argument can be made since the driver had simply missed the sign at the entrance, and hadn't thought to check for other signs, having assumed it was another free car park for Iceland customers, like all previous ones, however I would appreciate any advice on if there is something I am unaware of that can be argued, or if the text contained within the PCN is not sufficient in some way.
I have attached pictures of the PCN that the registered keeper has received, as well as pictures of signs in the car park. It is frustrating since it would have only been £1 to park there for the duration that the car remained there for, so I'm wondering if there could be some sort of reduced payment as a settlement?
https://imgur.com/a/pcn-NfrO4ba
Thank you. -
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They are offering you a mugs discount of 40% which is the only offer you're going to get from Excel. However, if this was a genuine mistake by the driver and you were a customer of Iceland, you should try Plan A, which email the Iceland CEO at Tarsem.Dhaliwal@iceland.co.uk and explain the situation. Normally, they are very good at getting these PCNs cancelled.
If you don't have any luck with Plan A, then you can fight it but as the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is PoFA complaint, they can hold you liable as the Keeper if the driver is not identified. Any appeals/defence could certainly be framed around poor signage.
The photos you've shown, if it was dark at the time, should be shown without any flash or car headlights. If the phot comes out without being to see the wording clearly, that is what you want. Also, those signs appear to be at ground level. Why? -
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Thank you, I have just sent an email to the CEO explaining the situation, hopefully he sees it.
I think the signage would be considered adequate to be honest - it is at eye-level, the photos might be a bit misleading as that's just the wall protruding, and it was evening so the visibility was not that bad. The only problem with the signage is that it was only at the entrance (on the left, not driver's side) and walls surrounding the car park, and not in the middle where the driver had parked, and was mixed in with Iceland 'Customer Parking' and 'Make sure you don't get locked in' signs:
https://imgur.com/a/cOe5EpV
Red are Excel Parking signs, blue are Iceland signs which don't mention restrictions. -
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That evidence would certainly have a good chance of winning on lack of prominent signage. Can you get your own contemporaneous photos of the signs, or lack of them?
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That evidence would certainly have a good chance of winning on lack of prominent signage. Can you get your own contemporaneous photos of the signs, or lack of them?
Unfortunately not, as I am in the middle of moving house so don't have the capacity to travel back before tomorrow, which is when the 'discounted charge' expires.
Google images has a relatively recent photo of the car park, and I don't think much, if anything, has changed since.
Here's the view of the wall my car would have been facing as the driver entered and parked; the sign in the middle of the wall is just an Iceland one saying customer parking, while the Excel ones are are in the corners - one next to the generator, and another right at the edge, by the exit:
https://imgur.com/f2zz4ip
Also, as DWMB2 says, the entrance signage was off-set for a car who entered from the left side of the photo, as it was a one-way road - I don't think it's reasonable for the driver to look so far to the left like that as they were entering, especially with a passenger obscuring the vision.
Unfortunately I haven't heard anything back from the CEO.
Is there a template I could use to write the appeal tonight/tomorrow, so that I don't run out of time for the discounted rate? (the post didn't arrive until a few days ago, which is why this is so last minute). Also, by the time I receive a response, I will very likely be at a different address - is there a way to guarantee that they will send it to my next address, and not my current one?
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Why are you even considering the "mugs discount"? You have received a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking firm for an alleged breach of contract by the driver. If I send you a speculative invoice for £50 for not wearing pink underwear on a Tuesday but if you pay me within 14 days, I'll discount it to £10, would you pay it?
If you want to fight this, then ignore the mugs discount. These PCNs are easily beatable if you follow the advice.
If you are changing address imminently, then you MUST send a Data Rectification Notice (DRN) to the Excel Data Protection Officer (DPO). The DRN must instruct Excel to update their records with your new address for service and to erase the old address. The highlighted words are there for a reason, so make sure you use them.
I also strongly advise you to use postal redirection, ideally for a minimum of three months. We see many cases where this was not done and several months down the line the Keeper is surprised to find they have a CCJ by default because they know nothing about the claim.
So, DRN is your very first priority. You only sent the email to the Iceland CEO three days ago. A bit more patience is required.
If your only concern is to be low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and are going to be intimidated into paying at the mugs discount because of ignorance or fear of the process, then I won't bother wasting any more time on this. -
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If you believe this PCN is beatable then I'll ignore it, just wasn't sure if my points are strong enough to have a realistic chance.
I'll have time over the weekend to go back and take more photos - is there anything specific that I should ensure is captured, or just general photos of each sign from a medium distance is enough?
I've sent the new address to the data protection officer, but there seems to be a technical issue on the Royal Mail site that won't let me find a quote for postal redirection - even though I've contacted the data protection officer with my details before I've sent off my appeal, would I still be held liable if it gets sent to the wrong address? Either way, I may be able to get in touch with the new tenants to keep an eye on the post for me. -
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Do I believe that the PCN is beatable... yes.
If you've instructed the firm by DRN to update your address for service and they then send something to the old address, then that is nit you fault. As for are you "liable", that depends on what you think you may be liable for? If the operator thinks you are liable for a debt claim and it is sent to the wrong address, then that has nothing to do with their allegation that you are liable for the claim. However, if that were to happen, you have an even stronger case to have any default judgment made because of the defective service set aside. -
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I've just managed to go and get a few more photos.
https://imgur.com/a/xBYlsox
Note on the day of the incident, the Iceland van in the first photo was parked one place to the left, further obscuring vision of the machine upon approach to the entrance.
I've also taken a picture of the approach into the car park - I'm not sure if the picture captures it well, but the sign is bent away from the direction of the one way traffic. -
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All good photos. just keep them in the very remote chance you may ever need to use them as evidence.
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How long should I wait for a response from the CEO before I try something else?
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Give it until 3rd October and then you can appeal to Excel, for what it is worth, if you've not heard back from Iceland by then.
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Hi
Did you manage to get any updates here? -
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Hi
The person you are asking has not been back since 29 September.
Did you manage to get any updates here?
Please start a thread of your own if you want advice. -
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