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Disabled bay - badge blew down
Posted by
PoloSee
on 26 Nov, 2023 18:02
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The driver was visiting the ALDI supermarket at the location cited on the NTK attached. The driver parked in a Blue Badge bay and displayed their current and valid Blue Badge. Upon returning to the vehicle it was noted that the badge had fallen to the floor. It was a very windy day and this may have happened when exiting the car. The car in question is leased from Motability as part of their disabled driver scheme and all participating members are Blue Badge holders. The NTK shown dated 09/11/2023 was only received by post on 25/11/2023 possibly due to ongoing significant Royal Mail delays in the local area. No contact has been made as yet with UKPC. Efforts over the past 24 hours to find out who the landowner of Bell Green Retail Park have not been fruitful as yet. ALDI has said they cannot/will not help. Apologies for the dark pic of the parking signage - hope you can read it?
We hope you can help please?
https://imgur.com/a/3SgvYKi [ Guests cannot view attachments ]
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Please show us both sides of the PCN. Redact your name, address, vehicle number and any reference number but leave all dates visible
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#2 Reply
Posted by
PoloSee
on 26 Nov, 2023 19:11
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Please show us both sides of the PCN. Redact your name, address, vehicle number and any reference number but leave all dates visible
The NTK is attached as a PDF together with a JPEG of the parking signage. Are they not visible? (I've attached an imgur link too just in case)
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#3 Reply
Posted by
PoloSee
on 28 Nov, 2023 18:04
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I would really appreciate your advice and guidance with this as soon as possible please. I'm conscious that the clock is ticking. Many thanks
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#4 Reply
Posted by
DWMB2
on 28 Nov, 2023 23:12
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Ideally keep on at Aldi - if they absolutely won't help, see if they can provide you with the details of the landowner, and ask them to intervene. The basis of your approach could be that an occupant of the vehicle is entitled to reasonable adjustments under the Equality Act 2010 - one doesn't need a blue badge to be entitled to these adjustments at all, so you certainly ought not to be punished for having displayed one but it having slipped from the dashboard.
I can't see any 'technical' challenges that arise from the notice. You could submit an appeal to UKPC on the basis of the disabled badge being displayed but falling from the dash, attaching a photo of it with the appeal, and raising the point about the Equality Act. You can show us a draft before sending if you wish.
It's not immediately clear what consideration is being offered by the signage, which could give rise to an argument of 'forbidding signage', aka no contract.
The above arguments are the main ones I can see in this case, but don't expect UKPC to accept them. Unless the landowner intervenes there's no quick way out of this, you'd potentially need to be prepared to fight them all the way.
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#5 Reply
Posted by
PoloSee
on 30 Nov, 2023 13:08
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Thank you very much for your advice.
Since my last post I have received a FINAL REMINDER from UKPC dated 23/11/23
I have contacted ALDI customer services centre and await their reply. I have also contacted a company called KIER GP Sydenham who I believe may be the landowner.
Meanwhile this is my first draft of an appeal to UKPC... Be grateful for any comments, suggestions for improvement etc.
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I refer to your Notice to Keeper dated 09/11/23 not received by me until 25/11/23. I refer also to your Final Reminder dated 23/11/23 received 27/11/23.
My current and valid disabled persons’ Blue Badge was placed clearly on display on the dash of my vehicle LV70 *** when it was parked by my driver at Bell Green Retail Park at 5 pm on 07/11/2023. When we returned to the vehicle having completed our shopping in Aldi, it was noted that the Blue Badge had fallen to the floor. It was a very windy evening and we can reasonably assume that the badge blew off whilst we were exiting the car.
You will be aware that the Equality Act 2010 requires organisations such as UKPC to make reasonable adjustments in the provision of their services to accommodate the particular needs of people with disabilities. This includes providing dedicated disabled parking bays.
Moreover, you will also be aware that whereas the UK’s Blue Badge scheme covers a majority of roads provided by public authorities, it does not apply on private land such as Bell Green Retail Park. As such I contend that there is no legal obligation on disabled persons to display a Blue Badge whilst parked in a designated bay at this site. That said, I acknowledge that it is a useful vehicle for differentiating between those entitled to use disabled bays and those that are not.
The above, notwithstanding, I maintain my position that my valid Blue Badge was displayed at the point at which I and my driver exited the vehicle at 5 pm on 07/11/23.
Given the above, I kindly request that you cancel the invoice (Notice to Keeper) in question and take no further action in this matter.
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Very confrontational and IMO wrong.
What happens on a road as regards BB holders has nothing to do with private land.
IMO, they have made adjustments, they've reserved parking places solely for BB holders. This argument wants to extend this and effectively ask a court to interfere with the civil contract terms because of the Equality Act. As I read the Beavis Supreme Court judgment this is not something the court would do. But if there are judgments, and even better case law, where in similar circumstances a court has done this then I'd like to see them because it's a judgment-based argument which could be deployed in many cases.
In your case, I think you should start by recognising that the BB which had been displayed had somehow fallen from [wherever it was placed] but before finalise your appeal where was the BB and how visible was it from the immediate vicinity of the car? Whoever took the photo couldn't determine that the BB wasn't displayed from that distance and must have looked into the car.
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#7 Reply
Posted by
DWMB2
on 30 Nov, 2023 16:05
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I agree that changing the tone might be beneficial, but disagree with some of the rest.
Where someone misuses a disabled space, the commercial justification for a £100 charge is clear. Where someone is disabled, has a blue badge, attempts to display it but is unfortunate enough for it to fall off their dashboard, and brings this to the attention of the parking company at the earliest opportunity, it becomes less clear to me that a £100 charge would be commercially justified.
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#8 Reply
Posted by
PoloSee
on 30 Nov, 2023 16:41
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Thank you both. I'm more than happy to amend the tone if the view is that it's confrontational - not my intention at all. I raised the EA point purely to illustrate the point that in effect the BB is not actually required to be displayed here to enable a disabled person to avail of the parking privileges afforded in this private car park under the reasonable adjustment provisions of the EA 2010. Though I did acknowledge the common sense of requesting its use to avoid abuse.
The BB was displayed on the passenger side dashboard as far as we can remember, not flush with the windscreen but rather further back and hence why it may have blown down in the crosswind when both driver and passenger opened their doors simultaneously. Not sure how any of us can know whether or not the person who took the relevant photos looked into the car?
I'll redraft in friendlier terms and post again.
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Where did you find the BB? Clearly, if on a seat and visible this is something you should say.
As I said, what is your basis for arguing that the operator is not entitled to impose the condition about the display of a BB? The EA is not a charter which permits anyone covered by 'protected characteristics' to set their own rules.
the BB is not actually required to be displayed here
IMO, it is required.
As regards Redx's comment regarding commercial justification, this might be correct but as yet we don't know anything about the operator/landowner relationship and in any event IMO really goes to the issue of scale of parking charge, not whether there was a breach and wouldn't be determined this side of court.
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#10 Reply
Posted by
DWMB2
on 30 Nov, 2023 17:58
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The EA is indeed not a charter that allows people to set their own rules, but it does set standards against which the conduct of businesses can be considered, and
does require them to make reasonable adjustments. Providing parking spaces for disabled people, that are only to be used by those who are disabled, and are closer to the entrance of a business than regular spaces, is a very well established adjustment.
Whilst blue badges have no automatic 'power' on private land, requiring their display is a fairly straightforward way of ensuring that those who are not disabled do not misuse disabled spaces. But, I would argue that someone who is entitled to a reasonable adjustment (such as being allowed to park in a disabled space) does not lose that entitlement simply by virtue of their blue badge falling off the dashboard. Of course, at the point of issuing the charge UKPC are unaware of the motorist's disability due to the (alleged) lack of visible blue badge, but it is now being brought to their attention.
I agree that an argument of commercial justification wouldn't be resolved without a court visit. Although at present I'm struggling to see any arguments that would be - getting the landowner to intervene remains the best option in that regard.
Where did you find the BB? Clearly, if on a seat and visible this is something you should say.
Agreed - we've seen plenty of cases where badges (and indeed pay & display tickets) have been readily visible to anyone giving more than a cursory glance.
As regards Redx's comment
Whilst Redx and I might never have been seen in the same room together we are definitely not the same person
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#11 Reply
Posted by
PoloSee
on 01 Dec, 2023 10:10
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Thanks again both for your knowledgeable input. I'll redraft and repost shortly. One further question ahead of that though. Is it okay to name the driver now as it appears that UKPC always use the failure to name the driver (and that alone) as reason not to address any substantive issues raised when they respond to appeals? Thanks
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'....Is it okay to name the driver'
If you're not the driver and provide them with a 'current address for service' for the driver then you're off the hook.
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#13 Reply
Posted by
PoloSee
on 01 Dec, 2023 20:39
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The driver is my carer and I will only name them if not doing so is going to be used as an excuse by UKPC to not respond comprehensively to my appeal (I've noted on other forums that they use that as a tactic). I am not naming them to pass the responsibility to them.
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#14 Reply
Posted by
DWMB2
on 01 Dec, 2023 20:44
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Naming them will pass the responsibility to them. They would receive a notice in their own name and UKPC would start pursuing them
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