Author Topic: CPM PARKING PCN X3 - NOT DISPLAYING A VALID PERMIT - TOPMAST POINT, BARKANTINE ESTATE  (Read 1786 times)

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This is my first post guys so please bare with me:

Context:

The driver was coming back home and due to not finding any space in their normal parking, the driver took an immediate right turn to park due to finding empty space where there is no sign until much further up where it says private land and that you need to has a permit displayed etc.

  • Where the car was parked it was besides a curb where there is absolutely 0 road markings indicating that this this a private bay and should not be a place where it was parked. Nor was there any single yellow lines or anything else. The driver returned the next day to move the car and since there was no sticker left on the car it was assumed that the area parked was fine and that they could park there again the next day.
  • Ultimately the car was left there a couple of days and was never parked there again. A couple weeks passed by and the driver received 3 letters in the post indicating that they left the car in an area that they should not have (CPM) and that they are liable to pay. The driver went away for a a couple weeks on holiday and so the appeal period has passed and the letter from the Debt Collector Company (Debt Recovery Plus) has sent 3 letters to my address saying that since I am the registered keeper of the car I am liable to pay £170 for each charge (£510 total).



This is the first notice of these letter that has appeared. The driver believes that 3 charges to be massively unfair especially since the awareness of the charge is only made available once the letter was sent home. The driver expressed concerns that imagine they left it there for an entire week then they would have racked up charges until the letter arrived.

Since the appeal process is over and the first letter of debt recovery has arrived what can I do regarding this matter. I will attach the front of all the letters I have received regarding the letter received from CPM for the PCN.

I would really appreciate any advice as the letter from the debt company want the payment settled by 17/01/2025

I have attached a link of all notices. I would really appreciate any help or support regarding this:

https://imgur.com/a/HQ1I7CP
« Last Edit: January 16, 2025, 02:24:13 am by msrr204 »

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Criminal.. isn't it? However, stop fretting. You can safely ignore the debt collector letters. They are powerless to do anything except to try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear.

The debt collectors are not a party to the contract allegedly breached by the driver. Ignore them. Use their letters a kindling or to line the bottom of a litter tray. Never, ever, communicate with a useless, powerless debt collector.

You will not have to wait and see if/when they issue a Letter of Claim (LoC) which you should show us. They will in due course issue a claim which you must respond to and we will provide a suitable defence. These claims are easily defended and in 99% of cases, they discontinue. The very few that ever get was far as a hearing are either stuck out or won.

Come back if/when you receive an LoC.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Thank you so much for the reply. It is my first time and they send three letters to my address each with a charge of £170. I assume that I would not need to send any updates if I get another letter from the Debt Collector agency and should only update once I receive the LoC from court?

Sorry not too knowledgeable around this so really appreciate all the help!

Correct. We only need to know about each PCN.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Hi guys just wanted to post an update regarding this matter. So I have received a final reminder from the Debt company and have also received a letter stating 'Terminal notice Pre-legal action' that I am unsure how to go around.

I have attached them below so please do advise me on the matter. Once again I received these letters three times each for each PCN so will not clutter this forum by including those too

Once again really appreciate all the help

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Which bit of this previous post is not understood?

Criminal.. isn't it? However, stop fretting. You can safely ignore the debt collector letters. They are powerless to do anything except to try and make the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay up out of ignorance and fear.

The debt collectors are not a party to the contract allegedly breached by the driver. Ignore them. Use their letters a kindling or to line the bottom of a litter tray. Never, ever, communicate with a useless, powerless debt collector.

You will now have to wait and see if/when they issue a Letter of Claim (LoC) which you should show us. They will in due course issue a claim which you must respond to and we will provide a suitable defence. These claims are easily defended and in 99% of cases, they discontinue. The very few that ever get was far as a hearing are either stuck out or won.

Come back if/when you receive an LoC.

We really don't need to know about these useless bits of paper. The debt collectors are not a party to the contract allegedly breached by the driver and cannot do anything about it.

They certainly cannot take you to court or anything else. IGNORE THEM!!!!
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Hi guys,

I hope you guys have been well. I have some recent updates regarding my case after not hearing anything for the past few months. Earlier this week I got letters from two different solicitors claiming that this is the 'letter before claim' and that I am to respond urgently. As they are from separate solicitors I am quite worried and would really appreciate any support/advise. If you think that they are serious and I should just pay then I would consider that option too.

I have attached the images below and covered some sensitive information, so I would really appreciate any support/guidance on how to proceed. Thank you very much in advance

https://imgur.com/a/EdnZbUh

Before I give you the advice you need, please confirm that up to this point you have had no communication with either CPM or either BW Legal or Gladstones.

As far as CPM are concerned, do they know the identity of the driver? You, as the Keeper, could also be the driver but no one could know that except you. As you are under no legal obligation to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking firm and as none of their NtKs comply with PoFA 2012, they can only pursue the driver, if they know the identity, which they don't, unless you've told them.

You say that the car was left in the same spot each time. However, the two NtKs issued on the 19/11/2024 state two slightly different locations as:

1. Topmast Point, Barkantine Estate at 07:24
2. The Quarterdeck, Barkantine Estate at 15:15

Is this correct?

Also, the letter from BW Legal is not an LoC and is just another debt recovery letter which can be safely ignored.

For now, you can respond to the LoC from the utter incompetents at Gladstones with the following:

Quote
Subject: UK-CPM v [Keeper] — Your Letter of Claim dated 28/08/2025 — PCN [reference]

Dear Sirs,

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon and thus is in complete contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

As a firm of supposed solicitors, one would expect you to be capable of crafting a letter that aligns with paragraphs 3.1(a)–(d), 5.1 and 5.2 of the Protocol, and paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. These provisions do not exist for decoration—they exist to facilitate informed discussion and proportionate resolution. You might wish to reacquaint yourselves with them.

The Civil Procedure Rules 1998, Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols (Part 3), stipulate that prior to proceedings, parties should have exchanged sufficient information to understand each other’s position. Part 6 helpfully clarifies that this includes disclosure of key documents relevant to the issues in dispute.

Your template letter mentions a “contract”, yet fails to provide one. This would appear to undermine the only foundation upon which your client’s claim allegedly rests. It’s difficult to engage in meaningful pre-litigation dialogue when your side declines to furnish the very document it purports to enforce.

I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim that complies with the requirements of para 3.1 (a) of the Pre-Action Protocol, I shall then seek advice and submit a formal response within 30 days, as required by the Protocol. Thus, I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. A copy of the contract (or contracts) you allege exists between your client and the driver, in the form of an actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date, not a generic stock image
2. The exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract(s) which is (are) relied upon that you allege to have been breached
3. The written agreement between your client and the landowner, establishing authority to enforce
4. A breakdown of the charges claimed, identifying whether the principal sum is claimed as consideration or damages, and whether the £70 “debt recovery” fee includes VAT

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

OP have you checked the entrance sign to that location? iirc it’s not even a CPM entrance sign at the time the PCN was issued. It’s an entrance sign from a complete different operator

I have just spent 10 minutes trying to find the location of the alleged contravention and it is impossible to do so based on what is on the NtK. I know roughly where the location is but I cannot find any "Topmast Point" and there is a reference to "the Quarterdeck" but beyond that, I can't pinpoint the location or where the entrance to is.

It will be worth challenging on that point if it ever went as far as a hearing (unlikely) as the NtK also fails to state the relevant land with sufficient specificity, and you can guarantee that the utter incompetents at Gladstones will fail to expand on the location in their woeful PoC when the claim comes.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Hi guys,

Sorry for the delayed response. I can confirm that BW Legal or Gladstones, however a few months ago when I got the letters I did contact CPM to see if they can withdraw the PCNs. I did not explicitly mention that I was the driver and spoke in a general sense.

For context where I parked:

https://imgur.com/a/lLXFN61

I must make clear when I parked the car there, there was NO road markings. Nowhere did it state it was estate parking and it is a side road that is directly off a road where I normally park. At the time there was no single or double yellow lines and nor were there any parking spot bays. In the image it shows 'estate parking' on the floor painted but this must have happened recently as it was not there months ago when I parked. The private land sign is further down this side road on a pillar and so it is very easy to miss and not clear at all.

I did not move my car from that parking spot that I left it and it was only there for 2 days before I moved it again. I was issued 2 PCNs (I have a total of 3) on the same day for the same spot which I find baffling. Topmast point I am not sure where they got that location from as it was always on the same spot. I hope this information helps and I'll wait a little before sending that email once you guys have seen this. If there is any other details that you may think is relevant please let me know.

Thank you very much.

OP have you checked the entrance sign to that location? iirc it’s not even a CPM entrance sign at the time the PCN was issued. It’s an entrance sign from a complete different operator

When I turned in the road there was 0 obvious indications immediately that it was a private road or anything like that. I assumed as it was safe to park since there was 0 road markings anywhere. Only when a couple weeks passed by did I receive 3 separate letters from CPM which states 2 dates of contravention.

Can you share a Google Maps street view link?

Here is a google maps street link:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Ft8i8BJsJVEaRkjZ6

The long straight road is also 'Stafford Street' and the side bit (where I parked and has now been updated to show estate parking on Google maps) is also called 'Stafford Street'. My car was behind the 'Hiya' car and like I mentioned before had 0 road markings previously. So all of the new markings must have been in recent times.

I hope this helps. Thank you

Those Google Street View images were taken between 2022 and September 2024, so the markings visible on Google would have been there when your vehicle was parked (albeit rather faded!), but I think this is a distraction. What matters is the CPM signage (or lack thereof), which is frankly rubbish to nonexistant.