Author Topic: Ticket which just doesn't make sense  (Read 63 times)

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rebbill

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Ticket which just doesn't make sense
« on: July 13, 2025, 10:48:11 am »
I parked outside our new studio the day before we opened for loading having been given verbal permission to do so by the land owners (I have other written permission for the same area on other dates). I got a ticket and have appealed. it has been turned down surprise surprise. There are many issues: the signs are not on the area I parked, they claim that there are signs in the area but they are on roads with yellow lines marking and different surfaces, here there are no markings, no signs. I am parked probable 50m away min. Getting anything in writing from the land owners isn't an option at this stage. I think they're chancing, but hate the idea of them chasing me.thanks so much.

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jfollows

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Re: Ticket which just doesn't make sense
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2025, 11:24:42 am »
What ticket?
If you show it to us we might be able to help.
Also what did you say in your appeal?
So far you’ve really not given us anything to go on, other than total guesswork.

DWMB2

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Re: Ticket which just doesn't make sense
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2025, 11:41:00 am »
Welcome to FTLA.

To help us provide the best advice, please read the following thread carefully and provide as much of the information it asks for as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide

rebbill

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Re: Ticket which just doesn't make sense
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2025, 12:11:41 pm »
sorry, I uploaded everything, not sure why it didn't take. Can you see it now?

b789

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Re: Ticket which just doesn't make sense
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2025, 12:36:55 pm »
What a pity you appealed as the driver. You've thrown away the best defence you had which was guaranteed to get this thrown out. Until you blabbed the identity of the driver, they had no idea who that was and their Notice to Driver (NtD) was not compliant with PoFA, which meant that there was no Keeper liability.

All you had to do was appeal as the Keeper of the vehicle and refer to the driver in the third person. No. I did this or that", only "the driver did this or that"!

This is still winnable but it is now going to take about a year before this is concluded and will involve defending a claim against you. If you are prepared to fight this, then just follow the advice.

Please confirm whether you did appeal the PCN as the driver or the only as the Keeper.

You can submit the following as your IAS appeal but it will be rejected but we do make them jump through the hoops as necessary:

Quote
Quote
I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability for this parking charge and appeal in full.

The parking operator bears the burden of proof. It must establish that a contravention occurred, that a valid contract was formed between the operator and the driver, and that it has lawful authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) in its own name. I therefore require the operator to provide the following:

1. Strict proof of clear, prominent, and adequate signage that was in place on the date in question, at the exact location of the alleged contravention. This must include a detailed site plan showing the placement of each sign and legible images of the signs in situ. The operator must demonstrate that signage was visible, legible, and compliant with the IPC Code of Practice that was valid at the time of the alleged contravention, including requirements relating to font size, positioning, and the communication of key terms.

2. Strict proof of a valid, contemporaneous contract or lease flowing from the landowner that authorises the operator to manage parking, issue PCNs, and pursue legal action in its own name. I refer the operator and the IAS assessor to Section 14 of the PPSCoP (Relationship with Landowner), which clearly sets out mandatory minimum requirements that must be evidenced before any parking charge may be issued on controlled land.

In particular, Section 14.1(a)–(j) requires the operator to have in place written confirmation from the landowner which includes:

• the identity of the landowner,
• a boundary map of the land to be managed,
• applicable byelaws,
• the duration and scope of authority granted,
• detailed parking terms and conditions including any specific permissions or exemptions,
• the means of issuing PCNs,
• responsibility for obtaining planning and advertising consents,
• and the operator’s obligations and appeal procedure under the Code.

These requirements are not optional. They are a condition precedent to issuing a PCN and bringing any associated action. Accordingly, I put the operator to strict proof of compliance with the entirety of Section 14 of the PPSCoP. Any document that contains redactions must not obscure the above conditions. The document must also be dated and signed by identifiable persons, with evidence of their authority to act on behalf of the parties to the agreement. The operator must provide an agreement showing clear authorisation from the landowner for this specific site.

3. Strict proof that the enforcement mechanism (e.g. ANPR or manual patrol) is reliable, synchronised, maintained, and calibrated regularly. The operator must prove the vehicle was present for the full duration alleged and not simply momentarily on site, potentially within a permitted consideration or grace period as defined by the PPSCoP.

4. Strict proof that the Notice to Keeper complies with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), if the operator is attempting to rely on keeper liability. Any failure to comply with the mandatory wording or timelines in Schedule 4 of PoFA renders keeper liability unenforceable.

5. Strict proof that the NtK was posted in time for it to have been given within the relevant period. The PPSCoP section 8.1.2(d) Note 2 requires that the operator must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g. the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system.)

6. The IAS claims that its assessors are “qualified solicitors or barristers.” Yet there is no way to verify this. Decisions are unsigned, anonymised, and unpublished. There is no transparency, no register of assessors, and no way for a motorist to assess the legal credibility of the individual supposedly adjudicating their appeal. If the person reading this really is legally qualified, they will know that without strict proof of landowner authority (VCS v HMRC [2013] EWCA Civ 186), no claim can succeed. They will also know that clear and prominent signage is a prerequisite for contract formation (ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67), and that keeper liability under PoFA is only available where strict statutory conditions are met.

If the assessor chooses to overlook these legal requirements and accept vague assertions or redacted documents from the operator, that will speak for itself—and lend further weight to the growing concern that this appeals service is neither independent nor genuinely legally qualified.

In short, I dispute this charge in its entirety and require full evidence of compliance with the law, industry codes of practice, and basic contractual principles.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

rebbill

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Re: Ticket which just doesn't make sense
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2025, 12:50:56 pm »
I knew I should not have written back, especially without asking here....urgh thank you. I did not specifically appeal as the driver but I will not have used third person. I can\t see the appeal as it's via a form on their site, I can ask for a copy of it?