Author Topic: Appealed Fine, heard nothing, now letter from DCBL - HELP  (Read 85 times)

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CJWARD2

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Appealed Fine, heard nothing, now letter from DCBL - HELP
« on: October 01, 2024, 08:30:36 pm »
Firstly - Thank you in advance for any help offered here.  It is appreciated.

I will be as concise as possible:

Private car park managed by Parking Group

Appealed fine as signage on approach and at turn in to the car park was facing the opposite direction so not visible at all from my direction of travel. (I took photos and attached them as part of my appeal)

I appealed online on the Parking Group website using the Notice Reference they gave me. (appeal submitted 10/8/24) (I took screenshot as evidence I had done this)  If this failed, their letter said I could escalate to POPLA. 

Upon submission of the appeal it said I would receive a confirmation email from noreply@parking-group.co.uk  I checked for a couple of days but received nothing.  As I had submitted electronically online and had a screenshot to prove I had submitted the appeal I forgot about it, expecting to receive a letter either accepting or denying my appeal.

I heard nothing until today (01/10/24) when I received a letter from DCBL asking for £170 (initial fine was £60 if paid swiftly going up to £100 but was to be frozen at £60 while the appeal process was ongoing).

I have tried to attach what I sent in my appeal but it says the upload folder is full.

What should I do - If I go to court and fight and lose will I pay the original fine or will I end up paying their legal costs?

Will they just say they informed me that the appeal had failed?  It may have got lost in the post.  I don't know. I can't prove anything.

Please advise.

Many thanks

Chris

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b789

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Re: Appealed Fine, heard nothing, now letter from DCBL - HELP
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2024, 01:33:24 am »
To show images, read the advice in this thread:

READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide

It is not unusual to see this failure to notify the appellant of the appeal rejection and so deprive you of an opportunity to appeal to POPLA. It costs PG £35 if they have to contest an appeal made through POPLA.

You are dealing with scamming, ex-clamper thugs. Don’t imagine for a moment that there is any “customer service” in these intellectually malnourished companies.

What you received and appealed is no a “fine” and calling it such imparts a sense of “authority” that is definitely undeserved. A PCN is simply an “invoice” for an alleged breach of contract by the driver. It is not a “fine” or a “penalty” issued by an “authority” such as a council or the police.

PG are an unregulated private parking company and have no statutory powers. They belong to the BPA and are bound to comply with the Code of Practice (CoP) if they want to be able to obtain Keeper data from the DVLA.

Have you tried Plan A yet? Asking the landowner or whoever contracted PG to manage the car park? That is always the easiest course of action.

You have done Plan B which was the initial appeal. Plan C is the POPLA appeal, which you have been denied. Plan D is a claim in the county court.

For now, try Plan A and also make a complaint to PG about their failure to send you a POPLA code. They are going to claim that they Cupid send it to you and will produce a copy of the letter or email. However, that is not proof that they did.

The only way they could prove they did is if the have a certificate of posting or a signature for delivery if sent by post or an email if sent electronically. If it was by email, they would have to show all the email headers to prove it was sent.

Point this out in your complaint and threaten to escalate it to the BPA. The burden of proof is on PG to evidence they actually sent it, not on you to prove you didn’t receive it. As you are complaining, they should put any debt recovery action on hold until they have responded to your complaint.

You can safely ignore all debt collector letters. They are powerless to actually do anything. Never, ever, ever communicate with the debt collectors. They are a third party to any contract allegedly breached by the driver. Ignore them.

Show us what you intend to write in your complaint to PG before you send it.

When you appealed, did you identify as the driver? If the Notice to Keeper (NtK) was not PoFA compliant, you will have thrown away a legal protection that would have helped.

If this escalates all the way to a court claim, don’t worry. There is a greater than 99.9% chance that it will never get as far as a hearing and they will discontinue before they have to pay the hearing fee. Once they realise that you intend to go all the way, the save themselves the hearing fee and go off in search of more gullible victims.

Even in the highly unlikely scenario that it ever went to a hearing and you somehow were unsuccessful in defending the claim, it would cost no more than ~£200 with zero chance of a CCJ if paid in full within 30 days of judgment.

I workday give odds of 100:1 of it ever going that way. A discontinuation is the most likely scenario if you are not provided with an opportunity to appeal to POPLA.

So, for now, read the linked thread and show us the NtK and prepare a complaint to PG for review.

You won’t be paying a penny to PG.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

CJWARD2

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Re: Appealed Fine, heard nothing, now letter from DCBL - HELP
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2024, 07:52:11 pm »
Thank you for the advice.  Does this sound OK for my complaint for not being offered a chance to appeal to POPLA? 

Anything I should add?

You also asked I show you the Notice to Keeper document.  In my original appeal I did identify as the driver.  I have also included the image of the signage facing away from my direction of travel: 

https://imgur.com/a/FUSO9sN (no personal details showing)


Dear Sir/Madam

I would like to make a complaint regarding the above reference number. Your original letter stated that I could contest this charge and if rejected I could then I appeal to POPLA.  I appealed this charge on 10/8/24.  I have not received any notification to inform me of the outcome of my appeal.  Instead, I have received a letter from DCBL (reference 7241607) which is a notice of debt recovery.  By doing this you have denied me the opportunity to appeal through POPLA.  If this is not resolved I will escalate to the British Parking Association as I fully intended to have my case heard by POPLA and in court if necessary.  Can you please ensure any further correspondence is sent recorded delivery to ensure I receive it and can respond in a timely manner.

Regards
« Last Edit: October 08, 2024, 08:24:07 pm by CJWARD2 »

DWMB2

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Re: Appealed Fine, heard nothing, now letter from DCBL - HELP
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2024, 08:20:38 pm »
I have removed that attachment - this is a public forum, so you might want to obscure your full name and home address.

b789

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Re: Appealed Fine, heard nothing, now letter from DCBL - HELP
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2024, 09:29:54 pm »
Here’s a slightly modified complaint. They’ll never send anything recorded delivery and it is not required.

Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Complaint Regarding Unresolved Appeal – PCN Reference [Insert PCN Reference]

I am writing to formally complain about the handling of my appeal against the above-referenced Parking Charge Notice (PCN). Your original correspondence clearly stated that I could contest this charge, and in the event of rejection, I would be provided with the opportunity to appeal via POPLA.

I submitted my appeal on 10th August 2024 and have yet to receive any response informing me of the outcome. Instead, I have received a letter from DCBL (reference 7241607), which is a notice of debt recovery. By proceeding to debt recovery without first responding to my appeal or issuing a POPLA code, you have denied me my right to have the case reviewed by POPLA.

To resolve this matter, I require a new appeal rejection letter to be issued, which includes a valid POPLA code from the date of this rejection. I also insist that for any future correspondence, you obtain and retain a proof of posting certificate, as I do, to ensure both parties have adequate evidence of sending. Simply producing a copy of a letter is not sufficient proof of posting or delivery.

If this issue is not resolved, I will have no choice but to escalate my complaint to the British Parking Association (BPA) and seek to have my case heard in court, if necessary.

I look forward to your immediate action to remedy this situation.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Full Name]

[Your Address]
[Your Contact Details]

When writing formal letters, never sign them “regards”. They are not your mates. If you don’t know the person you’re writing to, sign with “Yours faithfully”. If you do know them or their name, you sign “Yours sincerely”.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

CJWARD2

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Re: Appealed Fine, heard nothing, now letter from DCBL - HELP
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2024, 06:13:47 pm »
Thank you so much.

Much appreciated.