Author Topic: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off  (Read 133 times)

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olly1234

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APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« on: March 12, 2025, 09:37:52 am »
Hi All,

In the space of 4 days 2 PCNs received through our leasing company. Grouped together as both APCOA.

The car is leased from a leasing company.

First PCN - Redhill Station
The car was parked and parking paid for through the APCOA QR Code displayed, but still a PCN from APCOA has been received, through the leasing company, for "use of Private Car Park without making a valid payment".No receipt of parking/payment when parking was paid but there is a bank statement showing the payment to APCOA with date & time. Searching the APCOA receipt finder the car can't be found.

Second PCN - Heathrow T4 drop off
The car drove through the drop off zone - didn't realise they had got to the end of it before exiting, and circling back around. Second time stopped in the drop off zone for pick-up before exiting as usual. Heathrow Terminal Drop Off charge paid later that evening for one drop off (as that was all that was showing on the website). PCN received for "Use of Drop Off Zone without making a valid payment".

Any help greatly appreciated in appealing both of these.

TIA

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olly1234

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2025, 10:07:35 am »
PCNs attached.

Should also add that I believe the leasing company has already paid the PCNs

DWMB2

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2025, 10:41:43 am »
Should also add that I believe the leasing company has already paid the PCNs
You need to confirm this as it will entirely change the approach.

If the charges have been paid, then APCOA are out of the equation entirely, and it is instead a dispute between you and your leasing company.

olly1234

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2025, 11:01:18 am »
Confirmed that the leasing company has paid the Redhill Station PCN:

We have paid this for one of the following reasons:
- Legislation requires immediate payment by the registered keeper
- We have been instructed to pay on your behalf by your employer
- The offence has been escalated back to [Leasing Company]
- We are unable to transfer liability.

What do you need to do?
- If you accept liability no further action is required. Please do not make any further payment directly to the issuing authority.
- If you do not accept liability, please appeal directly to the authority. Instructions on how to appeal are included on the notification. To enable you to speak with the authority we have attached a Third-Party Authorisation letter. You will need to send this with your appeal.

Please note, the driver of the vehicle is responsible for appeal and as such, we are unable to do this on your behalf. 


For both PCNs, the leasing company has sent Third Party Authorisation letters to APCOA putting them in contact with the company that leases the car (the Ltd company that the Driver is a director of)

b789

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2025, 01:22:25 pm »
If your lease company has paid both the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) for the airport drop off and the fake Penalty Notice (PN), then, unless the terms of your lease specifically allow them to pay invoices from unregulated private parking companies, you have been screwed royally.

What they should have done is simply transfer liability to you as the Hirer of the vehicle and that would have been the end of the matter for the lease company. Once the liability is transferred, APCOA is supposed to then send a Notice to Hirer (NtH) in your name and you could have easily dealt with this. Nobody who is here receiving advice ever pays a penny to APCOA.

The PCN is very easily disposed of by informing APCOA that, as the Hirer or Keeper, you are under no legal obligation to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company and as the alleged contravention was on airport land, it is not relevant land and so there can be no Hirer/Keeper liability. APCOA would have cancelled the PCN in response.

As for the fake PN, that is part of a huge extortion racket that APCOA have going on and should be reported to Action Fraud. APCOA cannot issue a Penalty Notice for breach of railway bylaws as they are not the authority that has the statutory powers to do so. Only the Train Operating Company (TOC) or whoever owns the land where the station car park is located, such as Network Rail can issue a PN. Any penalty that is properly issued and then paid, should go to the public purse, not APCOAs bank account.

Any real PN can only be enforced through the magistrates court and that would require the TOC to lay evidence to the court and obtain a summons where it could then be challenged. The burden of proof in a criminal matter is much, much higher than for a civil contractual dispute and must be beyond a reasonable doubt.

Because APCOA has set a fake PN, it is nothing but an "offered contract" that no-one is obliged to accept. Basically, the are using unlawful language in their offered contract that if you bribe them £100, they will not criminally prosecute you in the magistrates court, which they cannot and would not do anyway. The language used in the offered contract is unlawful because it suggests that they have powers that they do not possess and threatens you with criminal liability which simply is not true.

However, this is all moot if the feckwits at your lease company have gone and paid the charges. Your only recourse is to sue them for the amount they have unlawfully taken from you. Check what your lease says about "parking charges". In most cases, they only refer to "fines" or "penalties" from "authorities" or the police.

It really p!sses me off when these companies simple pay speculative invoices from the likes of APCOA or any other unregulated private parking company and then tell the Hirer that it is not their problem anymore. They have breached the CRA 2015 by denying you any opportunity to appeal.

If they collect any payments they have made that you dispute you should have those payments stopped. If by card, make a chargeback. If by direct debit, you dispute it with your bank.

Edit: I have just read back through your previous post. You lease company has been conned into paying the fake PN. You can sue them for any charge they have made to you. They have been conned by the wording on the fake PN. This can be reported to the police for investigation. APCOA have absolutely no authority to issue PNs. The DfT even made this clear in a 2018 response to POPLA where they said they expect any breach of a railway bylaw for a minot parking offence to be dealt with under civil contract law and not bylaw 24.1 which is for more serious offences. Parking offences were decriminalised back in 1999 with the introduction of the Road Traffic Act.

For the airport PCN, when you receive the NtH, just appeal with the following:

Quote
I am the Hirer. APCOA cannot hold a Hirer liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Heathrow Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Heathrow Airport wanted to hold Hirers liable under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA's own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2025, 01:32:19 pm by b789 »
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DWMB2

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2025, 01:34:22 pm »
They have breached the CRA 2015 by denying you any opportunity to appeal.
We may need to use a different piece of legislation. From my reading of the OP's posts, it seems that he is not the hirer of the car, but rather, a limited company (of which he is a director) is the hirer, and it is this company that has a contractual arrangement with the lease company. On that basis, the company will not meet the definition of a 'consumer' for the purposes of the CRA.

b789

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2025, 01:46:32 pm »
They have breached the CRA 2015 by denying you any opportunity to appeal.
We may need to use a different piece of legislation. From my reading of the OP's posts, it seems that he is not the hirer of the car, but rather, a limited company (of which he is a director) is the hirer, and it is this company that has a contractual arrangement with the lease company. On that basis, the company will not meet the definition of a 'consumer' for the purposes of the CRA.

I stand corrected. In my red haze at reading the lease company has paid a fraudulent invoice, I did not notice that the Hirer is to an individual, which is even more reason to challenge this.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

olly1234

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2025, 02:30:09 pm »
Thank you all so much for your detailed responses (which admittedly has caused significant red haze for me as well!).

Super clear on the airport PCN, will await the PCN NtH sent directly to me as opposed to the one forwarded on by the leasing company, and then use the wording below - very much appreciated.

On the fake PN:
The wording in my lease agreement is: "Except only for vehicle excise duty fees (see Clause 3), it is your responsibility to pay all parking fines, speeding fines, congestion charges and all other fines, charges, fees, duties and tolls that become payable to any authority or other organisation in respect of the use of the Vehicle, including any fines payable by us in respect of any failure by you to continuously insure the Vehicle ("Vehicle Charge"). If we receive a notice of intended prosecution or a private parking charge notice relating to the Vehicle  we will, where reasonably possible, transfer liability by providing your details to the issuing authority/relevant operator so that you can deal with the matter directly.  We will charge you an administration fee of £12 plus VAT for this service.  For all other fines, penalties, charges and notices, or if we need to do so to avoid us incurring a liability on your behalf, we will make payment without giving you prior notice, and recharge it to you."

Quote
you can sue them for any charge they have made to you. They have been conned by the wording on the fake PN. This can be reported to the police for investigation. APCOA have absolutely no authority to issue PNs. The DfT even made this clear in a 2018 response to POPLA where they said they expect any breach of a railway bylaw for a minot parking offence to be dealt with under civil contract law and not bylaw 24.1 which is for more serious offences. Parking offences were decriminalised back in 1999 with the introduction of the Road Traffic Act.
I'm going in hard then against the leasing company to get them to reimburse me with the threat of legal action

olly1234

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2025, 03:51:26 pm »
With the help of ChatGPT have drafted the following for the car leasing company. This not being my forte, is there anything you would call out?

Subject: Urgent Complaint – Unlawful Payment of Penalty Notice to APCOA
Dear [Leasing Company],
I am writing to formally raise a strong objection regarding your decision to pay a so-called "Penalty Notice" issued by APCOA. It is deeply concerning that [Leasing Company], as a responsible leasing company, has failed to recognise that APCOA has absolutely no legal authority to issue Penalty Notices for breach of railway bylaws.

To be absolutely clear: APCOA is not a statutory authority and does not possess the legal power to enforce railway bylaw penalties. Only the Train Operating Company (TOC) or the landowner, such as Network Rail, has the statutory power to issue a legitimate Penalty Notice. Furthermore, any properly issued penalty would be payable to the public purse, not to a private entity like APCOA.

The Department for Transport (DfT) made this explicitly clear in a 2018 response to POPLA, stating that they expect any minor parking breach at a railway station to be dealt with under civil contract law, not under railway bylaw 24.1, which is reserved for more serious offences. In addition, parking offences were decriminalised in 1999 with the introduction of the Road Traffic Act. This reinforces the fact that APCOA’s so-called “Penalty Notice” is not a legally enforceable fine, but rather an offered contract that no one is legally obliged to accept.

APCOA’s use of misleading and unlawful language – implying that payment is necessary to avoid criminal prosecution – is wholly deceptive and legally baseless. Any genuine bylaw offence would require a TOC to lay evidence before a magistrates’ court, where the burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt. APCOA, however, has no authority to issue, enforce, or prosecute any Penalty Notice. They are deliberately misrepresenting their powers to mislead the public into paying charges they are not legally obligated to pay.

By paying this invalid demand, [Leasing Company] has effectively legitimised an unlawful claim and encouraged APCOA’s deceptive practices. Furthermore, if you have made any charge to me as a result of this improper payment, I reserve the right to take legal action against [Leasing Company] for unlawfully charging me for a bogus penalty that should never have been paid in the first place.

I expect an immediate response from [Leasing Company] confirming:
1.   Why this payment was made without verifying the legitimacy of the notice.
2.   What steps you will now take to recover this unlawful payment from APCOA.
3.   Confirmation that you will refund any charges made to me, or face legal action.

This matter is one of legal principle and fairness. APCOA’s actions are misleading, unlawful, and deceptive. Your compliance with their baseless demands only emboldens them to continue such practices.

I strongly urge you to rectify this situation immediately.

I look forward to your prompt response.


b789

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2025, 04:25:31 pm »
I suggest the following as a formal complaint to your lease company to start the ball rolling:

Quote
Subject: Formal Complaint – Unauthorised Payment of Fraudulent APCOA Penalty Notice and Legal Action Against APCOA

Notice number: GT02434155

[Date]

Dear [Lease Company Name],

I am writing to formally dispute the unauthorised payment you made on my behalf for a purported Penalty Notice issued by APCOA. This notice is fraudulent, legally invalid, and nothing more than an unlawful attempt to extract money by misrepresenting its legal authority. You have been deceived into paying money under false pretences, and I expect you to seek a full refund from APCOA, take legal action against them if necessary, and report this fraudulent conduct to the police.

The notice you paid was not a lawful railway byelaw penalty. APCOA is a private parking company and has no statutory power to issue or enforce railway byelaw penalties. A genuine Penalty Notice under the Railway Byelaws can only be issued and enforced by a Train Operating Company or Network Rail and must be pursued through the magistrates’ court, not through private debt collection. Instead, APCOA falsely claims the right to prosecute but then offers to drop the matter in exchange for a payment of £100. This is a misrepresentation of legal authority and an unlawful attempt to extract money using misleading threats of criminal prosecution. If APCOA truly had the power to prosecute, they would be required to proceed through a magistrates’ court, not offer a private settlement. The demand for money is therefore extortionate and fraudulent.

Your lease agreement does not authorise payment of invalid charges. The agreement states that private parking charges should be transferred to the hirer where possible, which you failed to do. The agreement allows payment of fines, penalties, and charges only where necessary to avoid incurring liability. However, this notice was neither a statutory fine nor an enforceable penalty, meaning there was no liability to avoid. You have wrongfully paid a fraudulent demand that had no legal basis, exposing yourself to financial loss due to deception.

APCOA is attempting to exploit confusion between railway byelaws and private contract law to extract payments. If this were a genuine byelaw enforcement matter, non-payment would result in a prosecution through the magistrates' court, not a demand for money sent by a private company. If this were a private contractual charge, it would fall under civil law and could not involve threats of criminal prosecution. By blurring these legal distinctions, APCOA has engaged in deceptive and misleading practices.

The Department for Transport clarified in a 2018 response to POPLA that parking contraventions under the Railway Byelaws should be dealt with under civil contract law, not prosecuted under byelaw 24.1. The reason for this is that minor parking offences were decriminalised following the introduction of the Road Traffic Act 1999. Byelaw 24.1 is reserved for serious criminal breaches of the byelaws, not for minor parking contraventions. This means that APCOA’s claim that non-payment could lead to a criminal prosecution is completely false and misleading. Since the Department for Transport has explicitly stated that these matters should be resolved under civil law rather than by criminal prosecution, APCOA has no legal basis for threatening recipients with prosecution for non-payment. The notice you paid was therefore not only legally flawed but also issued in direct contradiction to government guidance.

The wording in the notice itself further demonstrates APCOA’s complete lack of professionalism and fraudulent intent. The notice states, "You may are legally liable for this offence as the owner even if you were not the driver at the time." The grammatical errors alone are evidence of how little care has been taken in issuing this document. More importantly, the legal claim being made is entirely false.

The notice goes on to claim, "For further clarification, the owner, in relation to a vehicle means the person by whom the vehicle is kept, which in the case of a vehicle registered under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (c. 22) is presumed (unless the contrary is proved) to be the person in whose name the vehicle is registered." This statement is an outright lie.

The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 is entirely unrelated to the enforcement of railway byelaws or the prosecution of criminal offences. The presumption under section 7(1) of VERA 1994 that the registered keeper is the person who "keeps" the vehicle is solely for administrative and taxation purposes. It has nothing to do with criminal liability, and it does not create any legal responsibility in relation to alleged offences under the Railway Byelaws. There is no legal basis whatsoever for APCOA to suggest that the registered keeper can be automatically held liable for a criminal byelaw offence simply because their name appears on the V5C registration document.

In criminal matters, liability must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. There is no presumption of guilt in UK law, and APCOA’s assertion that the "owner" is automatically responsible is a blatant misrepresentation. If this were a genuine byelaw offence being pursued in the magistrates' court, APCOA or the prosecuting authority would be required to provide evidence to prove that the accused person was the individual responsible for the alleged contravention. The mere fact that a person is the registered keeper of a vehicle does not establish legal liability for a criminal offence, and APCOA’s attempt to mislead recipients into believing otherwise is fraudulent.

A legitimate byelaw penalty would require payment to the Train Operating Company or Network Rail, not directly to a private parking company’s bank account. The fact that APCOA is the sole recipient of payment suggests they are treating this as a private contract charge while disguising it as a statutory penalty. This is a violation of statutory processes and an abuse of legal enforcement procedures.

As the Penalty Notice was issued in APCOA’s name only, it fails to identify the statutory body that has authorised them to issue penalties under railway byelaws. APCOA must provide evidence that they have a contractual right with the Train Operating Company to issue Penalty Notices rather than Private Parking Charge Notices under civil contract law. If they do not have this authority, the notice is fraudulent and unenforceable.

You have unknowingly paid money under false pretences due to the unlawful wording of this fake penalty notice. I expect you to demand a full refund from APCOA and, if necessary, take legal action against them. You should report this to the police as a criminal matter involving fraudulent misrepresentation and attempted extortion. If APCOA refuses to refund the payment, you should initiate proceedings to recover the funds and challenge them to provide documentary evidence of their legal authority to issue Penalty Notices under railway byelaws.

Since you have wrongfully paid this fraudulent demand, I require immediate full reimbursement of the amount paid to APCOA, along with the removal of any associated administrative fees. This payment was made without my authorisation, in breach of our agreement, and in response to an unlawful demand from APCOA.

If this matter is not resolved within 14 days, I will escalate this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service if applicable, and pursue legal action against you for the unauthorised deduction of funds and breach of contract.

Please confirm how you intend to rectify this situation.

Yours sincerely,
[Your Name]
[Your Contact Information]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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olly1234

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2025, 04:30:35 pm »
I'm at a loss for words, b789 you are incredible, thank you very much. Would love to buy you a drink to say thank you!

Will send that on and keep you updated with any response!

olly1234

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2025, 10:25:37 am »
As an update, leasing company shirking responsibility!

Quote
I am reaching out to apologize for the inconvenience caused regarding the recent parking fine. Although we were required to pay the fine because some APCOA fines are issued at railway station car parks so are classed as a Railway Byelaw so we cannot transfer liability we have to pay and recharge. This does not prevent you from appealing the fine directly.

We understand that it’s not always the customer’s fault, as mistakes can sometimes occur on the part of the parking authority. To assist you, we have sent a third- party authorisation letter to the email which is set for your account. Additionally, I have attached a “Permission to Appeal” letter to this email to make the process easier for you. You can use this document to appeal the fine directly with the authority, either by email or post.

Once the fine is cancelled, please send us the confirmation of cancellation so we can follow up to secure a refund and reimburse the amount to your account.

Should you require any further assistance please contact us and we will be happy to help.

 

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2025, 10:46:31 am »
Wow. The stupidity and incompetence is strong with that one. It's wild how they have completely failed to address 99% of your complaint and have responded as if you haven't pointed out extremely clearly that the unregulated parking company has no "authority" whatsoever.

I imagine b789 will have some choice words for you to reply with...
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b789

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Re: APCOA Redhill Station AND APCOA Heathrow drop off
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2025, 05:30:49 pm »
Their response is dismissive and fails to address the core issues raised in your complaint.

Key Issues with Their Response:

1. Incorrect Assertion That Payment Was Required

• They claim they were "required to pay" because some APCOA fines are issued under railway byelaws. However, your complaint made it clear that this particular notice was not a valid railway byelaw penalty, but rather an unlawful demand misrepresenting legal authority.
• Even if a legitimate byelaw penalty had been issued, payment should have been made to the Train Operating Company (TOC) or Network Rail, not directly to APCOA.

2. Failure to Engage with the Substance of Your Complaint

• Your complaint detailed APCOA's misrepresentation of railway byelaws, its attempt to extort money using misleading threats, and the unlawful wording of the notice. Their response does not acknowledge or address any of these points.
• Instead, they offer a generic response about appealing the fine—despite the fact that you are not appealing, but challenging their unauthorised payment.

3. Failure to Accept Responsibility for Their Unauthorised Payment

• They ignore your point that their lease agreement only allows them to pay fines, penalties, or charges "where necessary to avoid incurring liability."
• They have paid an unlawful demand without first verifying its legitimacy and now expect you to appeal instead of seeking a refund themselves.

4. Shifting the Burden to You

• They state that you should appeal and, if successful, provide confirmation so they can "follow up to secure a refund."
• This is entirely inappropriate—APCOA scammed them, not you. It is their responsibility to seek a refund, not yours.

Recommended Next Steps:

1. Escalate the Complaint to Senior Management

Send a follow-up complaint stating that their response is wholly inadequate and that you require immediate reimbursement. Make clear:

• The payment was unauthorised and contrary to your lease agreement.
• Their assertion that they were "required" to pay is incorrect.
• You are not responsible for securing a refund from APCOA. They must take action against APCOA for fraudulent misrepresentation and seek reimbursement directly.
• If they do not immediately refund you, you will escalate the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) (if applicable) and/or take legal action.

2. Demand a Formal Investigation and Legal Action Against APCOA

Request that they:

• Investigate how they were misled into paying this fraudulent demand.
• Report APCOA's actions to the police and relevant authorities.
• Seek legal action against APCOA for misrepresentation.

3. Escalate to the Financial Ombudsman Service (if applicable)

If the lease company is regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) (which many are), they are subject to FCA rules on treating customers fairly. If they refuse to reimburse you, escalate the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

4. Consider Legal Action

If they refuse to refund you, you should consider issuing a Letter of Claim (LoC) and filing a Small Claims Court claim against them for the unauthorised payment.

Let me know if you want me to draft a follow-up complaint letter.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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