Author Topic: Advice for a Small Claims Track hearing with UKPC (Read 1840 times)

fluffysocks36 · « **on:** August 10, 2024, 02:37:44 pm »

Advice for a Small Claims Track hearing with UKPC

I’m based in England, I have an upcoming hearing in County Court (Small Claims Track). As a Defendant, I submitted my initial Witness Statement well before the 14 day period allowed by the courts. I received an email yesterday from the Claimant’s representative with their witness statement.

I feel as if the Claimant has used my witness statement to formulate theirs which fails to acknowledge a lot of the points I raised in my own defence.

To provide some context. I was an employee at a company. At the start of my employment management made me aware as an employee on the Land I was permitted to park in the car park regulated by UKPC. I was made aware I would receive PCNs, however, to notify management and they’d be dealt with. I did as instructed, informed management and gave them the letters I’d received through the post from UKPC requesting I pay off the fines. I moved student residences in that time and I stopped receiving further correspondence. I assumed they had been dealt with. A year or so letter I check my credit score out of curiosity and come to the realisation a CCJ had been filed in my name. I was able to dispute the CCJ using the N244 form. At the initial hearing the Judge cancelled the registration of the judgement. Since, the claim has been moved to Small Claims Track.

The court hearing on the 28th of August is for the money I supposedly owe as the PCNs were never appealed by my employer. They’re using the narrative that the signage clearly demonstrates I entered a contract with the Claimant whereby I agreed to meet the terms and conditions of “Parking for customers only” and “3 hour maximum stay”.

My employee in this matter was negligent and lacked duty of care with regard to resolving the issue as they said they would. But I’m unsure of what to do moving forward as the Claimant requests the court strike out my claim as it has no merit and essentially the Judge rules in their favour. Despite the fact I’m not making up the idea of employees being permitted to park in the car park. Even the contract between the Claimant and Landowner states The client: “agree to update and maintain an exemption list of vehicle registrations and bring this to the attention of UKPC in a timely manner prior to the Parking Charge being issued. The Restrictions will apply to all motor vehicles including those on the exemption list”.

Any advice would be appreciated

b789 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2024, 02:59:06 pm »

Quote from: fluffysocks36 on August 10, 2024, 02:37:44 pm

But I’m unsure of what to do moving forward as the Claimant requests the court strike out my claim as it has no merit and essentially the Judge rules in their favour.

The above bit makes no sense. Did you file a counterclaim at any point?

From what you've told us, there was a CCJ on your record and you managed to get it set aside under CPR 13.2 as the claim was never served to an address you reside at. The judge agreed that the original claim stands and you are required to submit a witness statement no later than 14 days before the hearing.

I'm assuming that DCB Legal are the solicitors for the claimant.

You made the unfortunate error of submitting your original WS too early and gave the claimant time to undermine you. If the hearing is set of the 28th August, your WS must be submitted no later than the 14th August. Who has been advising you on this process up to now?

Do you have a copy of the original Particulars of Claim (PoC) that led to the default CCJ? Do you have a copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) that led to the claim. Only the first PCN is needed, if you have it. No reminders or final reminders.

When you set aside the CCJ, did you submit a draft defence to the claim? Have you submitted any defence at any stage? Please show us the judgment from the set aside so we can determine exactly who has to do what by when.

fluffysocks36 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2024, 03:29:28 pm »

Hi, apologies for the confusion! I have not filed a counterclaim. What I was meant to have said was the DCB legal representative has stated “It is my respectful submission that the Defence is entirely without merit and as such it is requested that the Defence is struck out and Judgment awarded in favour of my Company, payable forthwith.”

Correct! The CCJ was set aside pursuant to CPR13.2

I filed a defence statement prior to the hearing to set aside the CCJ. I acted as a litigant in person where the Judge at the time suggested I complete, file and serve my witness statement 14 days prior to the Small Claims Track hearing. I misunderstood this and so submitted my witness statement well before the 14 day period.

I was able to obtain the Particulars from the CNBC once I became aware of the court proceedings only after randomly checking my credit score. This is where it became evident that something wasn’t quite right.

I’ve tried to upload a copy of the General Form or Judgment or Order but have been unable to do so. The contents were as follows:

UPON hearing the Defendant in Person.
AND UPON the Court considering the letter from the Claimant dated 24/05/24.
AND UPON the Defendant having confirmed that a defence has already been filled and send with further copy handed into the Court at this hearing.
IT IS ORDERED THAT
1. The Judgment entered on 30/05/24 is hereby set Aside.
2. The registration of the Judgment is cancelled.
3. The Claim is allocated to the Small Claim track.
4. The Claim is listed for trial on the first available date after 56 days, time estimate 1 hour, in person.
5. 14 days prior to the trial, the parties are to file and serve any witness statements, and evidence they seek to rely UPON.

My witness statement was filed and served on 10/07/2024.

b789 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2024, 03:38:13 pm »

You need to show us exactly what you put in your defence and also the PoC of the original claim.

Did the judge not make any order as to costs?

Ignore the claimant requesting that your defence be thrown out. That is just bluster.

Read this thread for details on how to host or show the necessary documents. Or get a free DropBox account and host the files there. Just remember to suitably redact them of personal details before you do so.

READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide

fluffysocks36 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2024, 04:50:38 pm »

Hi, thank you for this information! This has made me feel a little relieved with what's going on!

I have composed a dropbox link of the PoCs, DCBs Draft Order, my Defence Statement, my Witness Statement and the DCBs Witness Statement. I really hope there is sufficient information within these files for you to help me! Once again, thank you!

Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/s24zd5kpf9c4lglqisro8/AMcfevtCnXQzNzqOvFSpRFA?rlkey=kk0nhnh6yk9rsc5mbfl120eyf&st=e7yemq8b&dl=0

b789 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2024, 05:37:02 pm »

What a pity you didn't come here before any of this was challenged. The PoC of the claim are in breach of CPR 16.4 and this should have been struck out at allocation stage. You have submitted a defence to a claim that has no defined cause of action.

Was there no an order issued after the set aside that instructed was you had to do and by when? Have you been given the right to submit a new defence? They one submitted was not a proper defence and was more in response to the set aside order.

If you are allowed to resubmit your defence I strongly suggest you submit the following and attach the draft order:

Quote

IN THE COUNTY COURT

Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

[Claimant's Full Name]
Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]
Defendant

DEFENCE

1. The Defendant denies any liability for this claim and the Claimant is put to strict proof otherwise.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a).

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16.7.5;

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c ) The PoC do not set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has
breached the contract (or contracts);

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state exactly how the claim for statutory interest is calculated;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC states that the Claimant is suing the defendant as the driver or the keeper. The claimant obviously knows whether the defendant is being sued as the driver or the keeper and should not be permitted to plead alternative causes of action.

4. The Defendant has attached to this defence a copy of an order made at another court which the allocating judge ought to make at this stage so that the Defendant can then know and understand the case which he/she/it faces and can then respond properly to the claim.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:

Date:

You should attach the following as a draft order for the judge to use:

Quote

Of the Court's own initiative and upon reading the particulars of claim and the defence

AND the court being of the view that there is a lack of precise detail in the particulars of claim in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the defendant such that the particulars of claim do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a)

It is Ordered that:

1. Unless the Claimant do, within 14 days of service of this order, file at court a further
particulars of claim which complies with CPR 16.4(1)(a) and which sets out:

(i) the precise and concise factual allegations it makes against the Defendant and

(ii) the factual or legal [or both] basis of its claim and

(iii) exactly how its claim is calculated (if there is a claim for a fixed sum)

then the claim shall be struck out.[/indent]

2. For the avoidance of doubt the further particulars of claim must:

(a) refer to and have attached to them (clearly marked "A") a copy of the contract (or contracts) between the claimant and defendant relied on

(b) set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is (or are) relied on.

(c ) have attached to them (clearly marked "B") a copy of each of the PCNs which forms the basis of this claim.

(d) must state by what method each of the PCNs was first brought to the attention of the defendant. For example, attaching it to the defendant's vehicle.

(e) in respect of each alleged breach of contract, set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts that the defendant was in breach of contract.

(f) in respect of each alleged breach of contract, set out (i) the full postal address of where the breach took place and (ii) the precise date and time of the alleged breach and (iii) exactly how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was incurred.

(g) in respect of each alleged breach of contract, must state whether the defendant is sued as the driver of the vehicle or the keeper of the vehicle

(h) not plead that the defendant is sued in the alternative as the driver of the vehicle or as the keeper of the vehicle.

(i) state what amount of the claim is the claim for non-payment of the PCN and what amount of the claim is the claim for damages.

(j) must explain the factual or legal (or both) basis of the claim for damages.

(k) set out a precise calculation of the claim for statutory interest up to the date of issue to include the date interest started running.

3. Permission to either party to apply to set aside, vary or stay this order by an application on notice which must be filed at this Court no more than 5 days after service of thisorder, failing which no such application may be made.

b789 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2024, 05:46:32 pm »

You would need to also attach to the above the following two transcripts and the following note:

Quote

“Bearing in mind the contents of the defence I would strongly suggest that the judge makes the attached order in support of which I also attach transcripts of two cases which support the proposition that the judge should make the order I suggest”.

CPM v Akande transcript

CEL v Chan transcript

I hope it is not too late for this all to be actioned. You have not gone about this properly and it is unlikely that UKPC/DCB Legal will discontinue for such a large sum. Hopefully the judge will get to read the resubmitted defence, which is that it is impossible to defend based on the woefully inadequate PoC and orders the claimant to submit further particulars that fully comply with CPR 16.4. My worry is that the original judge did not see fit to do so based on the PoC that lacked any cause of action which means that the were either not really interested or were not aware of the Chan and Akande persuasive cases. It is shocking that a judge should allow such a brazen abuse of process to go without sanction.

Which court is this going to be heard in

fluffysocks36 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2024, 06:00:53 pm »

Once again, thank you for the information you've provided!

Are you able to advise how I might be able to go about submitting another draft order/defence? The case will be heard at The County Court in Birmingham.

I massively regret not coming here before I went ahead with sending documents off to the courts and to the claimant. I was only made aware of this today by a friend

Is there any chance you have a PDF copy/Word document of what you've suggested I submit? I still have time before the 14-day period is over. But I'm unsure of how to submit the new defence $:-\$

b789 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 10, 2024, 06:17:40 pm »

As I said, I am not sure you do have an opportunity to submit a new defence. It is not clear from the information you have provided whether the judge ordered you to submit a new defence because the original defence was not a proper defence and was more aimed at the set aside.

You can try sending the documents as pdf attachments in an email to the court (and also to the claimants solicitor). Make sure that your claim number is in the email subject line. Ask in the email that the attached revised defence be added to your case as there is an obvious abuse of process in that the Particulars of Claim are in violation of CPR 16.4.

It may or may not work. I am just surprised that you are not aware of whether you were granted the right to resubmit your defence and a witness statement.

Start preparing a WS now, ready to submit by the 14th August. Start by explaining everything that is mentioned in the defence I have provided and all link each point to the points in the draft order. You can also add your explanation about being allowed to park there. However, I di not see any evidence to back that point up. It would have been worthwhile SARing UKPC because if you had previous PCNs cancelled, they would have had to provide those which you could have used to make your point.

fluffysocks36 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2024, 07:17:25 pm »

I understand. Might it be worth contacting the court via phone to see if I can resubmit my defence alongside a new witness statement since I have already submitted one?

Regarding UKPC/DBC issuing new PoC, would that not just mean once they've got the new PoC issued they'd still try to have a ruling in their favour with their witness statement I have uploaded in the dropbox link?

This bit you mention hear "“Bearing in mind the contents of the defence I would strongly suggest that the judge makes the attached order in support of which I also attach transcripts of two cases which support the proposition that the judge should make the order I suggest”." Would I be including that before or after the draft order and how exactly would I provide the court with the transcript?

I'm not entirely sure of how to prepare another witness statement with all the points you mention in the defence. I have no legal background and don't quite know how I'd make it work.

b789 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 11, 2024, 12:31:21 am »

Don’t contact the court by phone. They’ll just tell you to make an N244 application for a fee. You have all the information you need to submit. I have provided you with the transcripts and you can make the defence and draft order into PDFs.

UKPC will not be able to fully comply with that order. They will be exposed as they will not be able to explain the “damages” in their claim. They will not be able to provide a satisfactory detailed breakdown of the claim amounts and they will definitely not be able to provide a calculation of the interest that is accurate.

Submit the defence and attachments by email to the court where your hearing is scheduled and also info@dcblegal.co.uk and cc in yourself.

You have not mentioned which court the hearing is at.

H C Andersen · « **Reply #11 on:** August 11, 2024, 10:45:20 am »

OP, as I understand it:

You have admitted to being the driver at the relevant times;
You know that you were not allowed to park for more than 3 hours but did so none the less based upon your employer apparently indemnifying you from any claims.

So IMO the key issue is why, given that these matters occurred in 2022, have you not simply written to your employer at that time, or their successors, and asked them to pay? [edit..given that you claim that you have an email from your employer dated July 2024 that you 'were entitled to park on the land.' Is your employer your defence i.e. here's an email which proves that employees were entitled to park and therefore no breaches occurred. The simplicity of this has rather been lost in the vast amounts of paperwork IMO]

Being booted and suited in court doesn't affect matters IMO. Nothing to date casts any doubt on their claim, simply the post-contract breach procedures. But the contract breaches seem clear and you were the driver.

fluffysocks36 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 11, 2024, 12:10:38 pm »

Quote from: b789 on August 11, 2024, 12:31:21 am

You have not mentioned which court the hearing is at.

Hi sorry, not sure if you saw but I did mention in one of the posts above that the hearing is at County Court Birmingham.

Thank you for the information! I'll submit the defence and draft order to the court and to DCB in the hope the judge will actually review those documents! Are you able to advise on how to write the WS but still relate it to the points you raise in the defence/draft order as I'm still unsure of how to do this? Thanks!

fluffysocks36 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2024, 12:15:17 pm »

Quote from: H C Andersen on August 11, 2024, 10:45:20 am

OP, as I understand it:

You have admitted to being the driver at the relevant times;
You know that you were not allowed to park for more than 3 hours but did so none the less based upon your employer apparently indemnifying you from any claims.

So IMO the key issue is why, given that these matters occurred in 2022, have you not simply written to your employer at that time, or their successors, and asked them to pay?

Being booted and suited in court doesn't affect matters IMO. Nothing to date casts any doubt on their claim, simply the post-contract breach procedures. But the contract breaches seem clear and you were the driver.

I have tried on multiple occasions requesting my previous employer to deal with the matter at hand. However, upon them contacting UKPC, they've stated due to how far gone this is with legal involvement they are unable to do anything. If all else fails and I am required to pay of the supposed "debt" I plan on speaking to ACAS and considering taking the company to mediation to recover all financial burden I have had to cover as a result of the negligence of the management as well as them breaching the duty of care they owed me as an employee since this has caused unnecessary stress and financial costs.

What would your advice be to the above? I look forward to hearing from you

fluffysocks36 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2024, 01:03:09 pm »

Quote from: H C Andersen on August 11, 2024, 10:45:20 am

[edit..given that you claim that you have an email from your employer dated July 2024 that you 'were entitled to park on the land.' Is your employer your defence i.e. here's an email which proves that employees were entitled to park and therefore no breaches occurred. The simplicity of this has rather been lost in the vast amounts of paperwork IMO]

In relation to what you've said here. I have retrospective permission given by my employer (the current manager of the store I worked at) stating staff is able to park there. Please see the email correspondence below. I have included this in my witness statement with the email correspondence as an exhibit but I don't know entirely whether that is sufficient.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To whom this may concern,

I hope this email finds you well!

I had a query regarding parking at XXXXXXXXXXX Retail Park, XXXXXXXXXX. As an ex-employee between the dates 20/06/2022 and 03/07/2023. Was I permitted to park in the car park regulated by UK Parking Control Limited exceeding the maximum stay for customers? I was informed at the time of my employment by Dom that employees were permitted to park on the Land, however, wanted some clarification on this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you!

Kind regards,

XXXXX XXXXX

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear XXXXX

Yes all staff working for XXXXXXXXXXX retail park are permitted to park free of charge however long your shift may entail for that day/evening. If there is anything else I can help with in regards to this matter please don't hesitate to get in touch.

Kind regards XXXXXX XXXXXX
Store Manager
XXXXXXX

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Author Topic: Advice for a Small Claims Track hearing with UKPC (Read 1840 times)

fluffysocks36

Advice for a Small Claims Track hearing with UKPC

b789

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fluffysocks36

Re: Advice for a Small Claims Track hearing with UKPC

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Re: Advice for a Small Claims Track hearing with UKPC

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Re: Advice for a Small Claims Track hearing with UKPC

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b789

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Re: Advice for a Small Claims Track hearing with UKPC

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Re: Advice for a Small Claims Track hearing with UKPC