I’ve been having a debate “elsewhere” about RTA s88 (which allows a driver to continue to drive whilst his licence application is being processed).
In September ’23 a 79 year old driver made an application to renew his licence. He declared (simply) that he suffered from Sleep Apnoea (SA). This was the first time he had disclosed this condition. This resulted in a lot of follow up between the DVLA and his doctor, however his Doctor informed him he was not aware of any medical reason why he should not drive, so he continued to do so, relying on s88.
The DVLA wrote to him in December 2023 to advise that they have been informed of another potential medical condition and asked him to provide details within 14 days or his licence may be revoked. He replied with the information and within 6 weeks (Feb ’24) his new licence was issued (the second condition was not current, and is not affecting him now)
He was stopped for speeding during this time (in December). As well as he speeding, the police charged him under s87 and he now has a summons (may be a SJPN, but no matter) to answer those two charges.
Section 88 says (among other things) that “…a qualifying application by the driver for the grant of a licence to drive vehicles of that class for a period which includes that time [must have] been received by the Secretary of State,”
It also says that “an application is a qualifying application if the declaration made in pursuance of section 92(1) of this Act indicates that he is not suffering from a relevant disability.
There is no doubt that SA is a relevant disability as far as this goes. Looking at the DVLA guidance, it seems there are varying degrees of the condition, some which would lead to the DVLA revoking or refusing a licence and others which wouldn’t. This driver’s contention is that because he had consulted his doctor (after he had submitted his application) who said there was no reason why he should not drive, he can take advantage of s88. My guess is that because he submitted an application declaring a “relevant condition” he is not entitled to take advantage of s88 and must wait for the DVLA to make their decision.
He received his licence about six weeks after he was stopped by the police.
Any thoughts?
I too suffer from SA.
I was diagnosed as "severe" and told I couldn't drive, then soon afterwards I was supplied with a CPAP machine and given the all-clear.
On my 3-year renewal last year I declared that I had the condition, and that it was under control and monitored regularly by the specialist. DVLA told me they wouldn't renew until they'd investigated (which took several months). However, they explicitly told me in writing that I could drive in the meantime under s88!
Make of that what you will.
Make of that what you will.
It just adds o the confusion which seems to surround this.
The trouble for the driver in question is that he had no such verification from the DVLA. The first he heard from them (apart from the enquiry about the second condition) was when his licence was renewed in February.
What you have said is particularly confusing because in one of the DVLA pamphlets I have read it states categorically that the DVLA cannot give an opinion whether you would be permitted to rely on s88 whilst your application is being processed.
I don't know if there is any impact as a result of the person's age and normal renewal requirements.
I rely on S88. My conditions seem to take the DVLA best part of a year from start to finish.
In the paperwork I received DVLA express no opinion that I can continue.
They tell me S88 allows me to continue provided a correctly completed application has been received (so I get confirmation) and I am satisfied I am medically fit.
The guidance mentioned ones medical practitioner giving the all clear was enough.
They tell me S88 allows me to continue provided a correctly completed application has been received (so I get confirmation) and I am satisfied I am medically fit.
The more I read of this, the more disconnections I see between the legislation and the guidance (bit like Covid days!
)
The DVLA is a mess. My situation is similar. Being "of that age" and being a bus driver I have an annual medical. Since the covid farce I've had to rely on the s88 exemption for the last 3 or 4 years. This year my PSV entitlement was due for renewal in early April. I got my medical and posted it before the due date, got a proof of posting and tracked proof of receipt (the important bit) from DVLA. Within 2 weeks I got my paperwork back as I'd not sent the application form with it! I sent that almost by return and got the receipt of posting by the DVLA.
My employer pulled me up on the fact my psv licence had expired, but was satisfied that as the DVLA had received my application I could carry on driving on the s88 exemption until I got my licence back. I still haven't got my licence back from the DVLA, last time I tried to chase it up online the system told me they had a backlog and not to call them so I didn't. I may try again this week. My employer told me there's a number of drivers on s88 at the moment. They have over 200 drivers!
The advice from my employer, who probably knows more about the law than the DVLA is that providing the DVLA has received the application then carry on driving. If a doctor has deemed me unfit to drive then don't drive until the DVLA has reviewed the case. One of my colleagues has been diagnosed with diabetes and had to come off driving duties immediately.
The bonus for me is that with the annual delays my new licence has a year to run from the date of issue rather than the date of expiry o the previous one. so I've had the best part of a year with no licence and a saving of £70 by only having 3 medicals instead of 4.
But going back to your original question, I could ask my employer for their view on it. My view is that your man has declared a disability, the doctor has said he is fit enough to drive, until the DVLA advise otherwise and they can only do that once they've got their doctor's advice.
The more I read of this, the more disconnections I see between the legislation and the guidance (bit like Covid days! )
I came to the conclusion that what the legislation said was irrelevant until such point as I had a decision from the DVLA I wanted to challenge and the route for that was a hearing in magistrates court.
Some practical issues that may be faced:-
- Renting a car becomes difficult. DVLA show an expired licence and won't produce a check code.
- Don't input a driver number when obtaining insurance quotes. Insurers will not auto quote. Some insurers you would expect to quote then won't quote afterwards if no licence is used.
- Get an IDP (if possible) if driving abroad. Whether S88 is accepted is down to wherever one is (even pre Brexit)
Luckily for me the s88 bit only applies to my bus driving section!
DVLA is guidance only, much like the highway code.
An update on my licence renewal, I managed to speak to, wait for it, a PERSON at the DVSA today! My medical records are being looked at currently and a letter has gone to my GP for clarification. I will need to make an appointment to see my GP. As it's deemed not urgent, there's an appointment booked in 4 weeks! Meanwhile I can continue to drive under the s88 exemption. the lady at the DVLA offered to send me a copy of s88 but I politely declined as I already have a copy.
so I've had the best part of a year with no licence
The legislation only appears to grant a period of a year, if it's getting close that may be worth keeping an eye on.
The latest update on mine is that the DVLA medics decided they want some information from my GP. they sent the papers last week. They arrived this morning, signed and sent back. My GP wonders what they are on about! so far over 3 months on s88 exemption.
An update on this long-running saga, I still haven't had my licence back from the DVLA. I heard from them in late August saying they wanted further medical evidence from the hospital I attended some five years ago for a number of tests. Their medical team wrote to the specialist in charge of my case. Some time in late September I spoke to his secretary who said there was no letter from the DVLA. Back to the DVLA, they said they'd contact my GP. The GP said they didn't receive the letter. November DVLA wrote again to the hospital. This time the reply was that the specialist hadn't seen me for at least five years and could not comment on my current situation.
Back to the GP for a personal appointment on other matters, I asked the GP about the DVLA, he told me they no longer answer DVLA matters, refer to the specialist at the hospital...The GP commented that as I'm not a regular visitor there can't be much wrong with me! Quite likely, it may also because I can never get an appointment!
Back to the DVLA, same again, another letter to GP surgery.This time, early January this year got a short reply from the GP, unable to help! Last week a lengthy bout of Vivavldi's "Four Seasons"itis on hold to the DVLA, I'm told the matter has been referred back to their medical team for clarification. Not good enough, I asked to be referred to their complaints department... more of Four Seasons.. They agreed to elevate my case to the "urgent" department. The fact that I've been driving professionally carrying hundreds of people around in 12 tonne buses for well over 10 months without a valid licence must surely be a record by now.
How this is affecting me is that in early August one of the companies shut down with no notice. Redundant. I was advised to register with a couple of driving agencies. No luck as I didn't have a valid licence to show them, regardless of the s88 exemption. As it happens I'm still on the books of 2 other bus companies who accept what I say and understand the situation. But this week I needed to hire a van to move some stuff around. no valid licence card to show, so I can't hire a van, my partner can and she's having to drive. The other problem is that it restrict my ability to travel abroad, something I do about 4-5 times a year as I have a holiday home in the Ardennes. If I get stopped by police over there for something they are not going to know anything about a s88 exemption and I could be stuck there unable to drive back.
There's no sense of urgency to deal with vocational licences despite those licences being essential for the holder and is now preventing me from doing my job.I've told DVLA I will be claiming compensation for my loss and inconvenience. Licence renewal should be 4th March and my current medical will expire on that date. But my new licence (for last year) will only become valid for another year when it is eventually issued, so that will be out of snc with the medical!
Following last week's correspondence with the DVLa/SVSA/VOSA/whatever they call themselves this week and the threat of wanting compensation as I needed to hire a van last week and couldn't, my new driving licence arrived in the post on Saturday morning, dated 21st January 2025. My previous one expired on 4th March 2024.10 and a half months with no valid licence card!
Agree x 1
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