POPLA rejected appeal

POPLA rejected appeal
Posted by sugarray on 07 Dec, 2023 13:01
Hi gang

I had a pcn from group nexus for using a shopping car park. We went to the machine and it said to pay £1 so we did. The pcn states that i under paid and want £100 They're crazy. Anyway I appealed then went to Popla as I thought it was a cut and dry case. They rejected the appeal. I provided evidence that i paid. What is this about now/

#1 Reply
Posted by slapdash on 07 Dec, 2023 13:31
https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/

Also what is the evidence of payment and it was, until the story is provided, "the driver" who did things.

Ultimately with a popla rejection it is a waiting game to see if they sue in the next 6 years

#2 Reply
Posted by sugarray on 11 Jan, 2024 16:47
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ya-jYBYfLewKmiSqX2Pzf64158gvEw_0/view?usp=drive_link

Received the letter from the parking company they've added £60 to the fine. a-holes! Which the best wat foreard please?

#3 Reply
Posted by DWMB2 on 11 Jan, 2024 16:56
Quote from: sugarray on 11 Jan, 2024 16:47
Which the best wat foreard please?
As Slapdash noted above, the ball is now in their court, and it's a case of waiting to see if they take the matter to court. The £60 is likely an attempt at double recovery, which you would be able to challenge.

We still don't have any information from you on which to base any advice - we'd need to see:
- The original Parking Charge Notice
- Photos of the signage at the site
- Details of the payment procedure (do you input your reg? Do you display a ticket? Do you have proof of payment? etc.)
If you haven't already, you could try speaking to whoever owns the car park to see if they'll intervene.

#4 Reply
Posted by sugarray on 16 Jan, 2024 15:47
Thanks I cant find the original letter or rejection atm I have the decision from the popla website which i printed. Please see below:

Decision
Unsuccessful
Assessor Name
RXXXXXd BXXXXn
Assessor summary of operator case

The operator has issued a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as sufficient payment was not made.
Assessor summary of your case

The appellant advises that they paid the amount requested by the machine. They have provided a screen shot from their bank account. The appellant has repeated parts of their appeal within their comments.
Assessor supporting rational for decision

When assessing an appeal POPLA considers if the parking operator has issued the parking charge notice correctly and if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park. The operator’s list of payments shows that while a payment was made the driver did not enter their full and correct vehicle registration. As such the machine would not have been able to suggest the correct tariff. The appellant evidence shows that a payment was made but if they compared this to the tariffs on site they would have been able to tell that their payment was insufficient to cover the length of time which they were parked. The signs required the driver to make a valid payment using their full and correct vehicle registration or a parking charge of £100 will be issued. After considering the evidence from both parties, the driver did not pay for their stay and therefore did not comply with the terms and conditions of the site. As such, I am satisfied the parking charge has been issued correctly and I must refuse the appeal.

#5 Reply
Posted by sugarray on 17 Jan, 2024 16:41
I found the original pcn

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hwwjU1taJj13ug0Z_qezfPE-WK-OWaOl/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vO_8phODwERtRo_RyjoycW5jHyz0CgGk/view?usp=sharing

Please let me know if its worth pursuing. Thanks

#6 Reply
Posted by Nosy Parker on 18 Jan, 2024 09:41
It's up to Highview/Nexus, not you, to decide whether it's worth pursuing. If they want to make you pay, they will need to sue you in the County Court and win the case.

The document you linked is not the original PCN. It is a reminder and refers to an original PCN dated 25 July 2023. So we still don't know anything about the original PCN. The original PCN should have been included in the evidence submitted by Highview/Nexus to POPLA. If you show us that, we can provide more detailed advice. In the meantime, we do know how Group Nexus cases usually play out after POPLA refuses an appeal. If you have the patience and tenacity to play the game properly, you should eventually win without paying anything. You can choose to pay £60 now for a quiet life or play the long game and most likely pay nothing.

You will receive a stream of increasingly shrill demands for payment, first from the parking company and then from debt collectors, all of which you can safely ignore. These will add an extra (bogus) charge of £70 and make empty threats about court action, CCJ etc. You can safely ignore these however scary they seem. Eventually, you will receive a letter from solicitors or Highview/Nexus itself which will call itself a "letter of claim", "letter before claim" "letter before action" or something similar giving you 30 days warning of impending court action. This will enclose a form asking for personal financial information. You don't need to reply to this letter or complete the forms. Court action will follow either way, but if you reply towards the end of the 30 days saying "I dispute this alleged debt but I am anyway taking debt advice" they must wait another 30 days before starting proceedings.

Proceedings are started by the court office named Civil National Business Centre (CNBC) sending you a claim form. Provided you fight the claim following the guidance over on https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou/p1 you should defeat the claim.

In the meantime, you must ensure that Highview/Nexus is kept informed of your current address if you ever move to an address that is different from the one to which they sent the PCN. If you don't do that, you risk getting a CCJ because CNBC will send the claim to your old address. To notify a change of address, send the following email (attaching proof of your new address such as an updated V5C vehicle registration certificate or utility bill) to dpo@groupnexus.co.uk

Dear Sirs,

PCN [ ] VEHICLE [ ]

I dispute this charge and intend to defend any claim initiated in relation to it.

Please note that I no longer reside at the address shown on the PCN and correspondence sent to me there will not reach me. I require you to erase my former address from your records. My new address is [ ] and I attach proof thereof.

Yours faithfully,

You must repeat the exercise every time you move house in the next six years.

#7 Reply
Posted by H C Andersen on 18 Jan, 2024 21:28
As I understand it, your evidence is that the driver paid for 1 hour.

The vehicle was on site for more than 2 hours.

What's the defence?

You posted: We went to the machine and it said to pay £1 so we did

How so, the car park operated on a pay for your stay in advance basis, not pay on exit, therefore the machine didn't know when the vehicle would be leaving.

From now on there are the fundamentals of the alleged breach and procedural matters.

I don't see what defence there is against the alleged breach. Can you help?

And can you help with POPLA's ramblings about registration numbers? Your evidence is that payment was made for 1 hour - until 10.**- when in reality the vehicle was on site for over 2 hours.

What the hell has registration numbers got to do with matters?

#8 Reply
Posted by sugarray on 19 Jan, 2024 15:45
Hello again, sorry been unwell and not been able to focus.

This is how the events transpired; my mum was driving the car. She went to the shopping area and when she was leaving she went to the machine and put in her vrn. The machine came up with £1 so she was there less than two hours. It seems that by the time she got to the cr and loaded up, then left the car park it must have gone over the two hour mark. She said the car park was busy with cars and people and took some time to get out. 8 minutes is the questionable time here. So for 8 mins they want to charge my mum who is 74 £90 originally and now £160. What a world we live in.

#9 Reply
Posted by H C Andersen on 19 Jan, 2024 18:25
The machine came up with £1 so she was there less than two hours. It seems that by the time she got to the cr and loaded up, then left the car park it must have gone over the two hour mark.

OP, in the absence of photographic evidence, I'm working on this:

https://edmontongreencentre.co.uk/car-park/

If this is wrong, pl let us know. Even better, take your own photos.

The tariff:
Up to 1 hour: £1
1-2 hours: £2.

You're suggesting that she tipped into the 1-2 hour slot.

But this is not the evidence which shows the car was there for over 2 hours. Your argument only holds is she took over an hour to load and leave after payment.

And as for POPLA's 'The operator’s list of payments shows that while a payment was made the driver did not enter their full and correct vehicle registration. As such the machine would not have been able to suggest the correct tariff. The appellant evidence shows that a payment was made but if they compared this to the tariffs on site they would have been able to tell that their payment was insufficient to cover the length of time which they were parked. The signs required the driver to make a valid payment using their full and correct vehicle registration'.

I cannot make sense of this case unless you can show how payment works. For example, common practice in my area is for a camera to record the VRM on entry and for this to be entered by the driver on leaving. But unless a correct i.e. matching VRM is entered then NO tariff is demanded because there's no way this can be calculated. In simple terms:
A chalk entered and a cheese wants to leave...how much should be charged?

#10 Reply
Posted by sugarray on 23 Jan, 2024 16:27
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G8FZoSIuUSIL4R_in5e6OYqsLHF6bUf-/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G2g6hAeLlvDvlVJExhyNx2qoLzIiJaJM/view?usp=sharing

So I went to the car park and it looks like you are correct. There must have been an error on my mums part but she says 100% she typed in the vrn correctly and thats what came as the tarrif. Not sure what to do now really.

#11 Reply
Posted by H C Andersen on 23 Jan, 2024 19:58
The only variables would seem to be her times in and out of the car park, the VRM entered, the amount paid and the time taken to leave after paying.

Is your mother au fait with this system?

My only thoughts are that:
She thought she had to pay when parking and therefore parked, entered VRM, got the tariff, paid, shopped and then left...nearly 2 hours later.

How much was her shop that day?
Did she leave the site on foot at any time?

Anyway, while it's interesting to speculate, the fundamentals remain which is that the next step is court and this is in the creditor's hands.

#12 Reply
Posted by sugarray on 24 Jan, 2024 15:14
Yes she has been there many times. In fact her previous visit a few days earlier it was £1 and again she was there for 2 hours butI cant verify this. Whats the procedure if it goes to court?

#13 Reply
Posted by Nosy Parker on 24 Jan, 2024 15:31
The procedure if it goes to court is as per my post on 18 January which I've pasted below for your convenience. The use of "you" and "your" refers to the registered keeper.

"Proceedings are started by the court office named Civil National Business Centre (CNBC) sending you a claim form. Provided you fight the claim following the guidance over on https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou/p1 you should defeat the claim.

In the meantime, you must ensure that Highview/Nexus is kept informed of your current address if you ever move to an address that is different from the one to which they sent the PCN. If you don't do that, you risk getting a CCJ because CNBC will send the claim to your old address. To notify a change of address, send the following email (attaching proof of your new address such as an updated V5C vehicle registration certificate or utility bill) to dpo@groupnexus.co.uk

Dear Sirs,

PCN [ ] VEHICLE [ ]

I dispute this charge and intend to defend any claim initiated in relation to it.

Please note that I no longer reside at the address shown on the PCN and correspondence sent to me there will not reach me. I require you to erase my former address from your records. My new address is [ ] and I attach proof thereof.

Yours faithfully,

You must repeat the exercise every time you move house in the next six years."

However, if there is a systemic problem here, the keeper should complain to the landowner and their own MP as per Plan A.

#14 Reply
Posted by sugarray on 14 Mar, 2024 13:35
So it's been 6 weeks and have not heard anything further from nexus group. Is there a time limit on these things?