Author Topic: PCN appeal help  (Read 1371 times)

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PCN appeal help
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hello everyone :)

just wondering if anyone could help or there’s a way to appeal against this parking ticket at the earliest stage, my partner went shopping and stayed over the 3hr stay by 18 minutes, as you can see in the photo she had my baby daughter in the front seat and she had a few problems getting out of the car park with the baby needed to be changed before a long journey home,

not sure if there’s any way out of this or is it worth paying the fine at a discounted price which is really not on the top of my list at this moment in time coming up to christmas :(

we also no longer own this car as we sold it on the 25th of october if that can be any help

any advice i would really appreciate it, thankyou so much!

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Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #1 on: »
also i’m struggling on how to upload photo of the pcn if anyone could also help  :'(

Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #2 on: »
You need to use an external host for the docs.

Plan A is to get the shop to cancel it, but this may be a challenge if it's a retail park.

There may be failings in the PCN that means there is no keeper liability, but you may need to hold out till a court claim.

It's not a fine!

Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #3 on: »
thanks for the quick replly i’ve managed to upload photo as a link

https://files.fm/u/3r4wsq6dqw

yeah it’s a retail park sadly🫩

Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #4 on: »
It is not a “fine”. I will pay it and give you an extra £100 for every occurrence of the word “fine” you can evidence.

It is only a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking firm for an alleged breach of contract by the driver. Why would you think you should pay an invoice of you don’t think it is fair?

On top of that, they have absolutely no idea who the driver is. All they have done is request the Keepers details from the DVLA and sent an invoice that does not comply with PoFA 2012, which means they cannot hold the known Keeper liable for the alleged contravention by the driver.

The wording on their Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not conform to the requirements of the Act.

Also, just because it is a retail park does not mean that you can’t find the managing agent and get them to have their agent (the parking firm) cancel it.

Please show us the back of the NtK so that we can confirm that they have not complied with ALL the requirements of PoFA. Once you have done that, we will confirm that you only need appeal as the Keeper using the following advice:

Easy one to deal with… as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Carflow has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Carflow have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #5 on: »
thanks for that advice mate, really do appreciate it:)

i have attached the back off the received letter in the link

https://files.fm/u/83wmh7bj6y

Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #6 on: »
Keep the first-stage appeal as is. For POPLA, line up these points and exhibits:

PoFA Sch.4 ¶9(2)(f) – misstated keeper-liability warning
NtK says “after 29 days from the given date” and targets the “registered keeper”. Statute requires “after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given”, and it applies to the keeper. Non-compliance defeats keeper liability. Exhibit: both sides of NtK.

• Conflicting deadline language (undermines ¶9(2)(f))
Front page demands payment “no later than 28 days from the date of issue”, not the statutory trigger (“day after … given”). Exhibit: front page.

• PoFA ¶9(2)(b) – incomplete statement of driver liability
NtK states only that the driver “is required to pay the parking charge”, omitting “in respect of the specified period of parking” and that the charges “have not been paid in full”.

• PoFA ¶9(2)(e) – defective invitation to keeper
Invites payment of “this PCN” rather than “the unpaid parking charges”. Note the statute’s wording and that partial/substantial compliance is insufficient.

• Misstatement of law / PPSCoP v1.1 breach (cl. 8.1.1(d))
NtK threatens that if the named individual “denies they were the driver”, they “may pursue” the keeper. Once the keeper supplies the driver’s name and current service address, PoFA precludes keeper liability. That threat misleads about PoFA.

“Registered keeper” vs “keeper” throughout
Repeated use of “registered keeper” is not what PoFA provides for. Emphasise that the operator chose not to comply with the statute and cannot rely on keeper liability.

Optional supportive points if evidence fits:
• Signage: legibility of the charge and core terms on on-site signs (photos), and any ANPR/signage clarity issues.
• Consideration/grace periods: apply PPSCoP v1.1 (include timings if helpful).
• Landowner authority: require strict proof of the contemporaneous contract with landholder granting standing to pursue charges and litigation.

Pack POPLA with:
• A short keeper statement (no driver admission).
• Annotated scans of both sides of the NtK highlighting the quoted defects.
• Photos of signage (if poor/unclear).
• Any evidence of payment attempts/mitigations (if relevant).

That should be sufficient to carry POPLA on PoFA alone, with signage/authority as belt-and-braces.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #7 on: »
hello again :)

i’ve just received a reply from carflow as of today,

they have sent a big reply with all the signs attached to the email which i will upload to a url

i’m not sure where to go of this now if anyone could guide me in the right direction please :(

reply is as follows:



POPLA Appeal Code: [REMOVED BY MOD]

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for contacting Carflow.

This car park is private land and Carflow has been engaged to ensure that motorists pay the correct parking tariff.

There are 35 signs relating to the parking restrictions in Parc Troste Main Carpark. Carflow erected all of these signs on 28-Apr-2025, which includes 1 entrance sign, 21 rules signs, 2 Welsh rules signs, 3 tariff board signs and 2 pay here signs. We have attached a Site Appendix for your convenience, which includes a map detailing the location of these signs and a large number of photos of the signs in place. The purpose of the entrance signs are to notify motorists that the site is private land, parking tariffs apply and to invite motorists to check the rules signs around the car park for further details of the terms and conditions of parking. These rules signs are clearly visible around the site and notify motorists that Carflow are responsible for parking enforcement at the car park. Our signage design and text complies with all requirements of the British Parking Association’s Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice. This has been confirmed by the British Parking Association. The Code of Practice states that signs should be 450mm x 450mm - our signs are 46% larger at 625mm x 475mm. Parc Troste Main Car Park, Llanelli is private land and motorists should not assume that parking is free or otherwise before consulting the signs. Our signs are sufficiently visible during the day and at night should motorists wish to read them.

The Parc Troste Main carpark, Llanelli is open 24 hours a day, Monday-Sunday. The parking tariff rates at this site are as follows:

0 to 3 hours – FREE
3 – 4 hours - £1.50
4 – 5 hours - £3.00
5 – 6 hours - £4.50

Maximum stay 6 hours from 6am-11pm.
Maximum stay 10 minutes from 11pm-6am.

The signage clearly states "Tariff is based on stay time. Please note your entry time to correctly calculate your tariff."  Motorists are entitled to 3 hours free parking during the specified hours of this car park. If they overstay 3 hours, they are required to pay for their entire stay according to the tariffs outlined above. In this instance, you stayed for 3 hours and 18 minutes and were therefore required to pay £1.50.

Please be aware that we work in accordance with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which states:

“4 (1) The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle.

5 (1) The first condition is that the creditor -
(a) has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but
(b) is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name and a current address for service for the driver."

Therefore we remain the right to pursue the keeper of this vehicle. If you were not driving the vehicle at the time of the alleged breach, you should tell us the name and address for service of the driver and pass this notice to them. We would then pursue the driver for the charge.

By parking, the driver agreed to the terms displayed on-site. As the full tariff and correct VRN were not provided, we must reject your appeal.

As a gesture of goodwill we are willing to extend the discounted payment period by 14 days from the date of this correspondence. Therefore, payment can still be made at the discounted rate of £60 until 10-Dec-25. Payment must be made within 28 days (by 24-Dec-25). If payment is delayed beyond 24-Dec-25, an administrative charge may be added for late payment and debt recovery or court action may be taken. Additional costs may also be incurred as a result of debt recovery or court action.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. You now have two options; you can either pay or appeal to POPLA, the independent appeals service. You cannot do both. If you feel you have not been given a fair decision from Carflow you have the right to appeal to POPLA. Your POPLA appeal code can be found at the beginning of this correspondence. You must appeal to POPLA within 28 days of this rejection notice. The quickest and easiest way to submit your appeal to POPLA is online at www.popla.co.uk. If you appeal to POPLA within the discounted payment period, you will lose the opportunity to pay at the discounted rate. POPLA's latest annual report notes a 45% appeal success rate for motorists. In contrast Carflow maintains a 91% all-time success rate at POPLA.

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.

link for signs: https://files.fm/u/hwuynz7xd4

thankyou so much again:)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2025, 02:12:46 pm by DWMB2 »

Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #8 on: »
What a stupid response.
They don’t go on to quote
Quote
6(1)The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)—

(a)has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8; or

(b)has given a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 9.

(2)If a notice to driver has been given, any subsequent notice to keeper must be given in accordance with paragraph 8.
  for the pretty obvious reason that it’s detrimental to their case.
The next step is POPLA, for which you already have guidance.
You should obscure or remove your POPLA code.

In my submission to POPLA if it were me I’d be quoting their stupid response, followed by “the legislation goes on to say ….” and demonstrating why the notice is not in accordance with the legislation. Paragraph 9 in https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4
« Last Edit: November 26, 2025, 02:20:38 pm by jfollows »

Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #9 on: »
Hilarious... Their letter says all signs at Parc Trostre were “erected on 28-Apr-2025”. Their NtK was issued 24-Apr-2025 for an event before that date. Signage installed after the event cannot prove terms that bound the driver on the material date. Require them to provide contemporaneous photos/site plan from before the event.

Here are my notes on this:

Quote
You’re fine to proceed to POPLA. Carflow’s rejection gives you extra angles. Key points to use:

1. PoFA keeper liability still fails (lead ground)
• NtK misstates Sch 4 ¶9(2)(f): “after 29 days from the given date” and addressed to the “registered keeper”. The statute requires “after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given”, and liability is on the keeper. Non-compliance defeats keeper liability irrespective of posting dates.

2. Further PoFA defects (supporting)
• ¶9(2)(b): no clear statement that the “parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking” “have not been paid in full”.
• ¶9(2)(e): invites payment of “this PCN” rather than “the unpaid parking charges”.
• Repeated misuse of “registered keeper” instead of “keeper”.
• Misstatement that they may pursue the keeper even if a named individual denies being the driver – contrary to PoFA and a breach of PPSCoP v1.1 cl. 8.1.1(d) (misstatements about keeper liability).

3. Signage evidence is non-contemporaneous (strong)
• Their letter says all signs at Parc Trostre were “erected on 28-Apr-2025”.
• Their NtK was issued 24-Apr-2025 for an event before that date. Signage installed after the event cannot prove terms that bound the driver on the material date. Require contemporaneous photos/site plan from before the event.

4. Tariff/quantum point
• Their case is “failure to pay the £1.50 tariff for a 3h18 stay”. If they allege breach, the £100 (or similar) is a disproportionate sum where a modest tariff was payable, and the facts are far from the Beavis “free-for-2-hours/overstay deterrent” scenario. Put them to strict proof of commercial justification and prominent charge term. If they plead contractual sum, they must show the contract expressly priced the parking as “£1.50 plus £100” for 3h18; any ambiguity is construed against the drafter.

5. Address/service
• PoFA ¶9(4)–(6) requires posting to a current address for service and deems delivery two working days after posting. “Consignment numbers” show sending, not that the address was current. This is secondary (you already win on ¶9(2)(f)) but include it.

6. PPSCoP breaches to note
• Misstatements about PoFA keeper liability (8.1.1(d)).
• If their rejection continues debt-collection threats while ADR is available, flag unfair practice.

What to file at POPLA
• Ground 1: Keeper liability fails under PoFA Sch 4 ¶9(2)(f) (quote their exact wording and the statute; include both sides of the NtK as Exhibit 1 with highlights).
• Ground 2: Additional PoFA failures (¶9(2)(b), ¶9(2)(e); misuse of “registered keeper”; PPSCoP 8.1.1(d) misstatement).
• Ground 3: Signage not proven on the material date (their own letter says signs “erected on 28-Apr-2025”, after the event). Demand contemporaneous evidence from before the parking date. Exhibit: their rejection letter extract (Exhibit 2).
• Ground 4: Tariff/quantum and Beavis distinction (low tariff vs £100 charge; require proof of prominent core term and genuine commercial justification).

Housekeeping
• Do not identify the driver.
• Include a brief keeper statement at the start.
• Attach: NtK (both sides), Carflow rejection, and any site photos you can obtain showing lack of prominence/lighting on the material date.
• Ask POPLA to find that PoFA is not met; therefore the operator cannot transfer liability to the keeper and the appeal must be allowed.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #10 on: »
thanks for the reply both, much appreciated!

sorry i didn’t mean to put my reference number in :(

so im not sure how to start this situation with popla? do i need to just add the key points into my email?  do i just subject the reference number or will i also need to add more things to it?

sorry if i don’t make a lot of sense never really had to do this :’(

Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #11 on: »
You should search the forum for POPLA appeals, there are many examples, and you should use the information in this thread to construct your own, post it here and you will get advice on any modifications.
You have to lead the assessor through a process of why you are not liable and therefore why the appeal must be accepted.
If POPLA rejects your appeal, it just means you have to go through a longer process before paying nothing.
But you need to do your own research and this site is a mine of relevant information. You’ll get help, as long as you help yourself also.

Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #12 on: »
DO NOT submit anything to POPLA until you've shown us what you think you have and we can then give advice on any corrections or other edits as necessary.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #13 on: »
hey guys thanks for getting back to me again, i’m not sure if i’m going in the right direction with this, i’ve used your key points (much appreciated), really not sure about what i’m doing as i’ve never had to do it before and some things i don’t understand ;D 

i’m not sure if this was what i was meant to do but yeah ive no idea lol, i also wanted to see where you found that it said it was issued NtK in the 24th april but signs erected on the 28th april, the original Ntk was on 22 oct so don’t really understand there.


Good morning,

I am appealing this Parking Charge Notice as the registered keeper of the vehicle. I am under no legal obligation to identify the driver to a private parking company, and I have not done so. This appeal is made solely in my capacity as Keeper.

This appeal is made on the basis that Carflow is attempting to rely on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) in a location where it does not apply. The land in question is not “relevant land” as defined in PoFA Schedule 4. Therefore, Carflow has no lawful basis to pursue the registered keeper.

I have carefully evaluated the NtK and appealed against Carflow and they have rejected this current appeal, numerous key points were picked up when reading the appeal as follows:

NtK misstates after 29 days from the given date” and addressed to the “registered keeper”. The statute requires “after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given”, and liability is on the keeper. Non-compliance defeats keeper liability irrespective of posting dates.

no clear statement that the “parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking” “have not been paid in full”.
invites payment of “this PCN” rather than “the unpaid parking charges”.
Repeated misuse of “registered keeper” instead of “keeper”.
Misstatement that they may pursue the keeper even if a named individual denies being the driver – contrary to PoFA and a breach of PPSCoP v1.1 cl.

Their case is “failure to pay the £1.50 tariff for a 3h18 stay”. If they allege breach, the £100 (or similar) is a disproportionate sum where a modest tariff was payable, and the facts are far from the Beavis “free-for-2-hours/overstay deterrent” scenario. Put them to strict proof of commercial justification and prominent charge term. If they plead contractual sum, they must show the contract expressly priced the parking as “£1.50 plus £100” for 3h18; any ambiguity is construed against the drafter.

PoFA requires posting to a current address for service and deems delivery two working days after posting. “Consignment numbers” show sending, not that the address was current.

If their rejection continues debt-collection threats while ADR is available, flag unfair practice.

i hope you can take this appeal into consideration and look forward to hearing from you


Re: PCN appeal help
« Reply #14 on: »
The reference to 24 April is my bad. I mixed up some notes from a different, earlier Carflow appeal. Ignore that point. It doesn’t help though, if the images of the anti I need to refer to have been deleted.

You can use the following as your POPLA appeal. It should stress the intellectual malnourishment of an inadequately trained POPLA assessor:

Quote
I am the registered keeper. There will be no identification of the driver and no inference or presumption may be drawn.

1. This appeal is advanced on the basis that the operator’s Notice to Keeper (NtK) fails to comply with the mandatory requirements of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). The operator therefore has no right in law to recover any sum from the keeper. In the absence of a driver admission, the appeal must be allowed.

2. PoFA Schedule 4 paragraph 4(1) creates a conditional and exceptional statutory right to recover “unpaid parking charges” from a keeper only where the creditor strictly satisfies each precondition in paragraphs 5 to 9. It is a complete code and substantial compliance is insufficient.

3. The NtK fails paragraph 9(2)(f). The prescribed warning must state that after “the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given” the creditor will have the right to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges. The NtK instead warns of liability “after 29 days from the given date” and is addressed to/aimed at the “registered keeper”. This is not the statutory formulation. It misstates both the timescale and the trigger (“given” versus “given date”), and it misstates the legal person who may be liable (“keeper”, not necessarily the registered keeper). Paragraph 9(2)(f) is therefore not satisfied and keeper liability cannot arise.

4. The NtK also contains conflicting deadline language elsewhere (e.g. “no later than 28 days from the date of issue”), which is not the wording mandated by paragraph 9(2)(f). That inconsistency creates ambiguity and fails to give the precise statutory warning.

5. The NtK fails paragraph 9(2)(b). The statute requires a statement that the driver is liable for “the parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking” and that those charges “have not been paid in full”. The NtK merely asserts that the driver “is required to pay the parking charge”, omitting the statutory phrasing and context as to the “specified period of parking” and non-payment “in full”.

6. The NtK fails paragraph 9(2)(e). The invitation must be to pay “the unpaid parking charges” or to identify the driver and pass on the notice. The NtK instead invites payment of “this PCN”, which is not the statutory phrase and is ambiguous as to what is lawfully recoverable under PoFA.

7. The NtK repeatedly substitutes “registered keeper” for “keeper”. PoFA imposes potential liability upon the “keeper”, who may be a different legal person from the DVLA registered keeper. This persistent misuse of terminology is material because paragraph 9(2)(f) must be given to the keeper in the prescribed form. It was not.

8. The NtK further misstates the legal effect of PoFA by threatening that if the keeper identifies an individual who denies being the driver, the operator may nonetheless pursue the keeper. Once a keeper provides the name and current address for service of the driver, the statutory scheme does not permit keeper liability. That threat is a misstatement of law and is non-compliant with the Private Parking Single Code of Practice v1.1, clause 8.1.1(d), which prohibits misrepresentations about PoFA keeper liability.

9. Given the above defects, the operator has failed to meet the conditions in paragraph 5(1)(b) and 6(1)(a) read with paragraph 9. The exceptional right in paragraph 4(1) is therefore not engaged. The keeper cannot be liable.

10. For the avoidance of doubt, the operator bears the burden of proving strict PoFA compliance. It is not for the keeper to prove non-compliance. Any attempt to rely on “substantial compliance”, glosses on wording, or generic assertions about adhering to PoFA must be rejected. The statute is prescriptive.

11. Separately and in the alternative, if the operator seeks to recover the charge as a contractual sum from the driver, the operator must prove that the core term imposing the parking charge was prominently incorporated and met the transparency and prominence standards required by authority. The operator’s reliance on general signage packs and template confirmations is insufficient; contemporaneous evidence from the material date is required.

12. If the operator alleges a failure to pay a modest tariff for a short overstay, it must show a contractual basis for layering a triple-digit sum in addition to the tariff. The Supreme Court’s decision in ParkingEye v Beavis concerned a prominently disclosed deterrent charge in a very different factual and commercial context and does not create a blanket endorsement for all private parking charges.

13. The operator is put to strict proof of its locus standi. It must adduce an unredacted contemporaneous contract with the landowner granting it authority both to enter into parking contracts and to pursue charges and litigation in its own name at the material time. A witness statement or a site agreement with a managing agent of uncertain status is insufficient.

14. Any threat or attempt to add “administration” or “debt recovery” sums is unrecoverable and contrary to the private parking code regime and the general law of damages and penalties. Such add-ons are not “unpaid parking charges” within PoFA and cannot be recovered from a keeper in any event.

15. Service and address issues are noted. PoFA paragraph 9(4) requires the NtK to be “given by” handing to the keeper or sending it to a current service address so that it is delivered within the “relevant period”. Proof of posting or of a consignment number does not establish use of a current address for service. However, this point is secondary because paragraph 9(2)(f) non-compliance is dispositive.

16. In light of the above, the operator has no statutory cause of action against the keeper. POPLA should find that PoFA keeper liability is not established and allow the appeal on that basis alone. If necessary, POPLA should also find that the operator has failed to prove the contractual elements, signage prominence, and standing, such that no liability could arise even against a driver.

17. For the avoidance of doubt, nothing in this appeal should be taken as an admission as to the identity of the driver, nor as acceptance that the operator’s asserted contractual terms were incorporated or complied with. All rights are reserved.

Accordingly, the appeal should be allowed and the charge cancelled.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain