Hi all,
Now this has been taken over by a debt collector can I still fight this and win in court? I have received a letter of claim, which sounds very similar to other wording in other posts here requiring a response.
I received a contractual parking charge notice after my car overstayed the allotted time. The driver wasn't aware of any parking restrictions until I received the notice. The signage was very poor, one obscured notice on the way in, and maybe 6 signs in the carpark, but you have to drive or walk to them to find them.
Arial view
My car entered via the only entrance, drove through the disable parking bay and parked as shown on image Parking charge Photos. The driver donned ppe and walked directly through the fenced pedestrian entrance and into Gooutdoors. In doing so my car drove past the sign on the gate obscured by the tree and another sign attached to the fence halfway between the carpark entrance and the pedestrian entrance at which point the driver was searching the carpark for a parking space and avoiding other vehicles and pedestrians. It was very difficult to see the signs unless you already knew they were there.
When I received the notice I tried to phone Gooutdoors it is difficult, eventually I spoke to the assistant manager, allegedly. She said there was nothing Gooutdoors could do as it was a private external firm managing the carpark and I should contact them.
I chose not to and ignored all letters from G24, eventually after about 12 months they appeared to have given up. I have recently (almost a 9 months later) received a letter from bwlegal threatening court action.
My question is: now this has been taken over by a debt collector can I still fight this and win in court, or am I stuffed.
If it is likely I can succeed, I can supply further photos and any documentation required. I tried and failed to add pictures for the introduction, still trying!!
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If it is likely I can succeed, I can supply further photos and any documentation required.
We'll need to see said photos and documentation to be able to offer any advice on whether or not you can succeed. As a starting point, we'll need:
- A copy of the original Parking Charge Notice you received. Show us all pages, redact personal information but leave on all dates and times
- Photos of the signage at the site - a range of photos would be helpful here. Some showing the layout and visibility of the signage around the site, and some close up so that we can see the terms and conditions.
The fact that you have not responded to any correspondence so far is not fatal to any defence, but of course puts you on the back foot. The parking company will say they have been left with no choice but to go to court.
..... and maybe 6 signs in the carpark, but you have to drive or walk to them to find them.
ROTFL
That's the funniest excuse I've heard - that you actually have to "walk", (shock horror) to go up and read the parking signs.
I suppose you want a sign at each and every parking space!
Anyway:
Here is the entrance to it as at 2022
The entrance sign seems quite visible to me, and says you need to read the T&C's sign in the carpark for the rules
https://maps.app.goo.gl/JjauKPKFfp9nKijs9The various parking T&C signs round the carpark are too far away to be read on Street view unfortunately.
Directly overhead carpark for you all to see
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.7846293,-1.2276885,140m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m2!1e1!1e4?entry=ttu
People come here to seek advice, not mockery. If you're going to attempt the former, please do so without resorting to the latter.
DWMB2, thanks for the reponse, I went back and took some more photos, I have highlighted the signage and shown where I was parked behind the disabled parking. More pictures in my next post.
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A few more photos. I threw in another entrance photo, even with no leaves it is difficult to spot the first sign on approach.
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I have received a letter of claim, which sounds very similar to other wording in other posts here requiring a response.
A copy of the original Parking Charge Notice you received. Show us all pages, redact personal information but leave on all dates and times
IMO, not a hope in hell of winning in court on signs. Why? You're not admitting to being the driver, therefore you have no first-hand knowledge on the day. In any event the signs are there to be and can be seen.
So forget this line, it's distracting you from the key process issue:
I have received a letter of claim, which sounds very similar to other wording in other posts here requiring a response.
Post this, leave in all dates/times, just delete personal info and the reference number. You have to take action e.g. acknowledge service etc. Also, post the original PCN.
So pl get to grip with this and leave signs at least for now - we could return if the LoC asserts a breach which is not a condition in the signs.
IMO, not a hope in hell of winning in court on signs. Why? You're not admitting to being the driver, therefore you have no first-hand knowledge on the day. In any event the signs are there to be and can be seen.
I think the second reason (in bold) is more accurate than the first. A keeper could, if he had good evidence, argue that he has no liability on the basis that there was no contract formed with the driver due to poor signage, and therefore no charge due that could be recovered from the keeper.
But as you note signage looks like a difficult argument to raise, as even if the entrance sign was missed, there does seem to be a decent amount of other signage.
Also, post the original PCN
They already have.
I do have other letters from G24 including a final demand, Trace Debt Recovery then sent 4 letters. Then Debt Recovery Plus contacted me and finally bwLegal sent the Letter of Claim, I suspect there may be nothing useful in any of these letters?
From what you say it appears I may have no defence.
What is your advice please.
Post this, leave in all dates/times, just delete personal info and the reference number. You have to take action e.g. acknowledge service etc. Also, post the original PCN.
Sorry HC I completely missed this statement, see attached Letter of Claim. There is an annex (information sheet) and a reply from, do you require these too?
I believe from the comments so far I will have to pay this.
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Thanks Ian, I have read a fair bit of the articles recommended several times and sent off my reply to the letter of claim. Using the information provided I will give it a shot.