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Messages - wakefield33

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1
Thank you for your time with this.

The car was stationary and unaccompanied; would this not constitute parking - or are you thinking that the car wasn't on a 'roadway, pathway or verges'?

Yes and yes - I am registered keeper and the V5C address is correct.

2
I can't read the sign on your pic or on Maps view from 2017. But I don't think this sign is relevant to establishing the alleged contravention.

The sign states "Handy Cross Hub / Parking Controlled Zone / Off-street parking regulations in operation / No parking or waiting on roadway, pathway or verges / Penalties apply"

their rejection is nonsense about the contravention so I would go on with it.

In your view is the wording their use in their Notice of Rejection sufficiently poor to justify taking this to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal?

3
To enter what they consider to be the off-street area, drivers have to pass between two small signs - visible on GSV from 2017 - one on either side of the road: https://maps.app.goo.gl/LmaEKiH8vVKEMXfu9

For a while now, however, the left sign is missing. There is an upright pole in the ground... but no sign. No GSV of this, only a photo I took myself recently and uploaded when submitting my challenge. https://imgpile.com/p/YswgAjH

4
I challenged my PCN with the council on 2 June, and heard yesterday (9 June) that they rejected my challenge - as expected.

In principle I am willing to risk the higher amount and appeal this at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, but does anyone see any potential for success beyond merely giving it a try?

My challenge:
I wish to appeal against my Penalty Charge Notice (PCN). This is for two reasons: signage at the entrance to Handy Cross Hub, and the contravention code used on the PCN.

Firstly, Buckinghamshire Council has failed to adequately make clear that Handy Cross Hub Access Roads are considered an "off-street car park", which is necessary for the PCN to be valid. Since the presumption with roads at Handy Cross, which entirely resemble 'normal' roads, is that they are not off-street, the council installed TWO signs at the entrance to Handy Cross Hub immediately south of the roundabout south of Fair Ridge - one on either side of the road. Google Street View images from 2017 confirm that this used to be the case (see photo 1, attached). Since then, however, the sign on the left side of the road has been removed; the upright pole remains, but is empty, leaving only the small sign on the right-hand side of the road (see photo 2, attached). On its own this is insufficient - and it is the council's responsibility to replace the missing sign on the left-hand side of the road, something they have failed to do, leaving road users unclear regarding the possible presence of an "off-street car park".

Secondly, the PCN refers to contravention code 81. This contravention code, which refers to parking in a "restricted area", is reserved for use when an area is restricted to ALL vehicles (see the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and the Traffic Management Act 2004). The lay-by in question does not qualify as this type of "restricted area", as its use IS permitted by some vehicles, such as coaches, minibuses and taxis - and by cars, when dropping off. Since some vehicles are permitted to use the lay-by, contravention code 81 cannot apply.


Their rejection of my challenge:
Front https://imgpile.com/p/Q1l7Z55
Back https://imgpile.com/p/TCojesP

5
Searching online for the phrase "Handy Cross Hub Access Roads", it appears to me that Buckinghamshire Council is treating all roads in the Handy Cross area - near the leisure centre, the supermarket, the hotel, etc - as being one large "off-street" area.

When driving from the nearest main road (Marlow Hill) to the leisure centre, I see that the council has a small black/white sign stating that restrictions and penalties apply, implying that the apply past this point. GSV link with signs on either side of the road, although the quality makes it difficult to read the signs: https://maps.app.goo.gl/prXfeff9D4Y2TuUg6

Please tell us about the family member you were escorting to the leisure centre, because you were obviously dropping somebody off. If the family member is classed as "vulnerable", (child or elderly infirm person etc), you were engaged in what is termed "assisted boarding/alighting", which should get you your PCN cancelled.
They are a child, but I have doubts about whether this would apply. I left the car to walk them into the building; it wasn't for long, but it was more than alighting from the vehicle.

This looks like nonsense - it can't be restricted if it allows drop-offs and as you say there are no terms establishing the area as an off-street car park.
Having looked online here and there in the last 24 hours, this is something I wondered also. My understanding is limited, but I had thought that Contravention 81 ("Parked in a restricted area in an off-street car park") only applies when no-one can use that area. The signs make clear however that some vehicles can use it: coaches, minibuses and taxis. In other words, surely the contravention at play should have been one that reflected the fact that my vehicle isn't one of the permitted types, rather than the fact that it's a "restricted area"...?

6
The road directly outside Wycombe Leisure Centre has a lay-by which can be used for dropping-off, but otherwise appears to be restricted.

I left my car here briefly when walking a family member into the leisure centre, and came back a very short time later to find that a yellow PCN had been affixed to the windscreen.

Before I pay the PCN, or consider appealing, there are three things I am interested to find out more about from those who know more than me, if they are willing:

- The stack of three signs next to the lay-by seem unusual to me, and don't mention anything at all about terms and conditions. Are there any rules that these signs are supposed to comply with in order for PCNs in this area to be valid?

- The PCN states that the vehicle was observed from 15:46 to 15:46. Is there any kind of minimum amount of observation time that might apply?

- The PCN refers to contravention 81: "Parked in a restricted area in an off-street car park or housing estate". This wording seems odd to my untrained mind. Clearly it's not a housing estate - but I am surprised that this simple lay-by qualifies as "an off-street car park".

Thank you so much.

Google Street View

Front of PCN:

Back of PCN:

Photo of nearest signs:

7
Since my post, I spoke to staff at the venue and they are adamant they can't/won't do anything. They have a policy of not getting involved.

So - based on research over the past 48 hours here's what I'm planning to submit as an appeal. If anyone has a moment to suggest improvements, or point out any areas where I'm wasting my time, I would appreciate it massively.

Huge credit to user b789, who I hope doesn't mind that I have used part of a previous/unrelated post of theirs as the basis for some of this.

Thank you.


Re: Parking Charge Notice (PCN) No. [PCN Number]
Vehicle Registration No: [VRM]
Issue Date: 19/03/2026

I am appealing as the registered keeper of the vehicle. I am under no legal obligation to provide the driver’s details, and I decline to do so.

Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL) has failed to comply with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), which are necessary to hold the keeper liable. I outline the following points of non-compliance:

1. Failure to comply with PoFA schedule 4 paragraph 2(3):

Paragraph 2(3) further clarifies that 'adequate notice' means signs must clearly specify the parking charge and be positioned in such a way that the charge is brought to the attention of drivers. In this case, CEL did not display sufficient signage to meet this requirement.

2. Failure to comply with PoFA paragraph 9(2)(c):

PoFA paragraph 9(2)(c) requires that the Notice to Keeper describe how the parking charge arose and how the requirement to pay was brought to the attention of the driver. Given that CEL has failed to provide adequate notice as defined in paragraph 2(3), the Notice to Keeper does not comply with this requirement. CEL’s partial or substantial compliance with PoFA is insufficient to establish keeper liability, as full compliance with all PoFA requirements is mandatory.

In any event, CEL’s signage found at the car park is inconsistent and does not comply with the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice in various ways, including but not limited to the following:

• The entrance sign refers to ‘Phone and Pay’, which is how payment by mobile phone USED to be accepted at this car park but has since been replaced by RingGo, while some other signs still refer to the 'Phone and Pay' website;

• The entrance sign displays none of the Group 1 wording found in the ‘Entrance Signs’ Annex of the BPA Code of Practice;

• The size of the text on the entrance sign is too small to meet the requirements found in the ‘Entrance Signs’ Annex of the BPA Code of Practice;

• Signs on the payment machines themselves state “Valid ticket must be clearly displayed in windscreen”, while other signs state the opposite: “There is no need to display a ticket in your windscreen”;

• CEL signs are inconsistent: some state, around halfway down, “Payment must be made within 15 minutes of arrival at the premises”, while another says in the same area of the sign “Payment must be made before leaving the car park”.

Furthermore, should CEL reject my appeal, I will expect them to provide the following evidence to POPLA:

• A detailed layout of the car park showing the location of all signage.

• Proof of the exact location where the vehicle was parked, and how this relates to any signage.

• Evidence that the signage used to display the parking terms and conditions is fully compliant with the BPA Code of Practice.

CEL will be put to strict proof of the vehicle’s parking location and the relationship of that location to any signs passed between the parking space and the Lido.

In light of these clear breaches of PoFA and the inadequate signage, I request that the Parking Charge Notice be cancelled.

8
Good morning all--

I am the registered keeper of a vehicle and a few days ago received from Civil Enforcement a document titled "Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Notice to Keeper" in respect of the vehicle.

As you will see from uploaded pics of the document, the driver appears to have been in the car park for 26 minutes. I gather that the driver was using the car park to wait for a family member. They don't appear to have been aware that the car park was subject to ANPR monitoring. No parking was paid for.

The document is dated 19 March 2026 and I first saw it on Wednesday 25 March 2026. (Having had a busy few days with work, it was only on the 25th that I checked my post properly so I don't know the precise date of delivery; in theory it could have come through my letterbox on any of 20/21/23/24/25 March.)

This morning, Monday 30 March 2026, I visited the car park to take some photos, four of which have been uploaded. Some context:

  • The first image below, marked 'Phone & Pay or Pay at Machine', is the first sign drivers see when entering the car park (there is only one entrance)
  • The second image shows that the payment machines state "Valid ticket must be clearly displayed in windscreen" (there are three parking machines; two have this wording and the third doesn't say either way)
  • The third and fourth images show two of the large 'Parking' signs in the car park

A few thoughts...

- The entrance sign refers to 'Phone and Pay', which is what the car park used to use for payment. Notice that the large signs still mention that company's website around halfway down the blue section ( www.phoneandpay.co.uk).

- The entrance sign seems to be almost wholly incompatible with Annex A (Entrance Signs) in the BPA code of practice. The entrance sign also fails to display wording referred to in Annex B, Table B.1: "Entrance Sign to display / Parking tariff applies".

- There seems to be black-and-white inconsistency between the wording on the payment machines which states "Valid ticket must be clearly displayed in windscreen" vs the signs which state "There is no need to display a ticket in your windscreen".

- The large signs are, themselves, inconsistent. Halfway down one of them says "Payment must be made within 15 minutes of arrival at the premises" and the other says "Payment must be made before leaving the car park".

- The top right section of the large signs states, in relation to RingGo: "Please see side of machine for T&Cs" - but the sides of the three payment machines are blank / display no T&Cs.

As registered keeper I plan to submit an appeal to Civil Enforcement. If anyone has any advice about the most relevant/irrelevant parts of what I've mentioned, or anything I may not have thought of, I would be hugely grateful.

Thank you.

https://i.ibb.co/LzTZRpKD/NTK-front-redacted.png

https://i.ibb.co/7thXghgC/NTK-back-redacted.png

https://i.ibb.co/BMKcw5h/Wycombe-Rye-Lido-1-of-4.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0pz0Zy7s/Wycombe-Rye-Lido-2-of-4.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/qM4j0vnb/Wycombe-Rye-Lido-3-of-4.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/xTjSBNY/Wycombe-Rye-Lido-4-of-4.jpg

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