Free Traffic Legal Advice

I spoke to PALS and they cancelled it.

Thank you very much for your advice!

If TFL are correct, does it help me in any way that I relied on the information from the London Assembly? Could I use that as a defense or alternatively complain to the London Assembly?

So you looked up the definition of a 'bus' on the London Assembly site before you drove into the bus lane?

Not sure if there is slight sarcasm going on here, but just to explain the mindset here.

Most large cars are 7-8 seaters. 9 seater cars are more rare. As such, there can be confusion as to what their status is. As an example, back in 2014 I was stopped by police whilst driving a 9 seater vehicle and issued a ticket for driving not in accordance with my license. They stated that I was only allowed to drive a vehicle with 8 seats in total, based on Category B
Category B - Motor vehicles with a Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) not exceeding 3500kg and designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than eight passenger seats, with a trailer up to 750kg. (If trailer is over 750kg, the combination MAM must not exceed 3500kg. **) (minimum age 17*).

As you will appreciate, that is incorrect and actually enables a vehicle with 8 seats plus another for the driver. It took me months to persuade the police to drop the charges, even though I had an email from the DVLA specifically confirming this point. Additionally, a vehicle with 9+ seats is eligible for a 100% discount of the congestion charge. So it is not that ridiculous to assume that there may be some difference with the bus lane regulations for a 9 seater vehicle, and therefore yes, I did look up online and come across the London Assembly guidance prior to going into the Bus Lane.

Regards

Mo

Hi All,


I received a PCN from TFL for driving in a Bus Lane. My vehicle is a 9 seater - 8 passengers plus the driver. I was under the assumption that that qualifies the vehicle to go into a Bus Lane. I had read on the London Assembley that this was the case - see here

Bus lanes may be used by all vehicles classed as a bus under the terms of the Traffic Signs Regulations & General Directions 2002 (TSRGD). The TSRGD classes a bus as any motor vehicle 'constructed or adapted to carry more than 8 passengers (exclusive of the driver)'. Therefore, any vehicles with 9 seats or more are permitted to travel within a bus lane.


I appealed to TFL on the 30th October attaching the logbook and writing as follows:
This vehicle is a 9 seater and as such it legally entitled to drive in a bus lane. Please see the link here from the London Assembly confirming this point. https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/hospital-mini-buses I attach a copy of the vehicles logbook confirming that it is indeed a 9 seater. Please can you confirm this PCN is being cancelled. Thank you


TFL replied in a letter dated 22nd November saying that the regulations require a vehicle to be constructed or adapted to carry more than 8 passengers. This means that the vehicle must be a 10 seater. TFL allowed the discounted fee to remain at £80 however by the time I received the letter and got to log on today, it has gone up to £160.


I am attaching a copy of the PCN and TFL's response below. UPDATE: I am not sure if the link is working at the bottom, the link is also here https://imgur.com/a/Es10mIo


I have a few questions.
1. Is the meaning of the Regulation to require a vehicle to be a 10 seater, or a 9 seater. I can see both ways as being the intended regulation. Certainly the London Assembly have taken those exact words and understood them to mean a 9 seater vehicle is classed as a bus.

2. If TFL are correct, does it help me in any way that I relied on the information from the London Assembly? Could I use that as a defense or alternatively complain to the London Assembly?

3. Although TFL may perhaps be correct, they have failed to address the support that I used from the London Assembly as my representations. Does this constitute a failure to consider representations?

4. As far as I understand, TFL would be required to give me 14 days at the discounted level because I appealed to them in time. Would that date be 14 days from the date on their letter or 14 days from date of service of their letter? Today is day 15 and it is already at £160.

5. TFL allowed the discounted charge however they made no mention in their letter about any cut off period for that. All they note is that if not paid, an enforcement notice will be provided giving me a further 28 days and if that is not dealt with, a CC will be issued at which point it will go up to 50% more than the original amount. Does this lack of notification about a timeframe at which point the discount will expire constitute a failure on TFL's behalf?

Thank you very much

Mo

Thank you all very much for your advice!

Mo

Thanks. I am attaching a copy of the back.

I cannot seem to get any pictures of the parking sigs on the premises, the most I can get from google is the beginning of the road but it doesnt go further.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lakeside+Way/@51.5577577,-0.285532,3a,74y,121.32h,98.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZYuV2v0GZtq4Ch2QO0FFLg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m28!1m21!4m20!1m11!1m2!1s0x487610bdab972767:0x5acd989c10b91b47!2sNW11+0JL,+Leeside+Cres,+London!2m2!1d-0.2035201!2d51.5804089!3m4!1m2!1d-0.2838217!2d51.5576967!3s0x487613d546962e23:0x7049c9acf4b07c64!1m6!1m2!1s0x487613d55aa57001:0x911c58046bdfbd6b!2sHilton+London+Wembley,+Lakeside+Way,+Wembley+Park,+Wembley+HA9+0BU!2m2!1d-0.2827735!2d51.5575819!3e0!3m5!1s0x487613d521016edb:0x1c4bb626626f1fe6!8m2!3d51.5578595!4d-0.285535!16s%2Fg%2F11c5376rmj?coh=205409&entry=ttu
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Thanks    I have in fact done so....

I have received a response from Westminster....

Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) we apologise for the delay in our
response.
We have carried out a full review of your case and the PCN has been cancelled on this occasion only, and you are no
longer liable for the charge.


Thank you to everyone for your help and thank you especially to CP for alerting me to the scam!

Regards

Mo