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Messages - Skellum

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1
Resolved, after consideration decided to pay the reduced fee as I do not have the time to commit to chasing this through tribunal unfortunately.
Good luck to those who decide to take it all the way.

2
I will PM you.

Didn't see any messages, sent you one but don't see that in my sent either?
Weird  ::)

3
Hi all,

Any advice on this one?

Thank you

4
Hi team,

Received the appeal rejection today.

https://imgpile.com/p/5gUs3o4#Y6JLKVN

https://imgpile.com/p/5gUs3o4#j6FG3Jn

https://imgpile.com/p/5gUs3o4#L4hjQ9f

https://imgpile.com/p/5gUs3o4#oNMaiW1

https://imgpile.com/p/5gUs3o4#1Pyg1UP

Not sure if I have grounds to appeal this further based on their response.
I do note that their pictures don't include the directional arrows they reference though.

5
I have submitted an appeal using the above information, should my appeal be denied will I be offered the reduced rate still or expected to pay the full fare?

6
Thank you Hippocrates.

I have read that thread and can see the appeal is ongoing (seems its along the same timeframe only their issue occurred at night and mine during the day).

My main argument is that the guidance is not clear, I had no idea what a bus gate is or whether it was enforced on a Sunday (no buses run this route on that day from what I can find).
Also according to the CCTV the 'contravention' apparently occurs as I pull up to the give way line, technically speaking shouldn't it be enforced AFTER I had passed that line?

I'm guessing the first link in your profile is the same in your signature so
Should I respond with this as a start and see what their response is?

1. The alleged contravention is not proved because the video does not show any alleged upright signage passed.

2. I make this collateral challenge against the validity of the PCN as it is missing mandatory information as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable.                                     
             
Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

Therefore, it follows that the statement: If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make  representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £240 may be payable. adds to the lack of clarity by its omission. Even on its own, whether the required information was included or not, it is also arguable that it conflates the two periods using the word "or" which many would view as being conjunctive. Furthermore, even if the statement were to be interpreted disjunctively, there is still no clarity due to the missing information.

Therefore. please cancel.


Thank you

7
Just to update my own post here, I'm reading up of the DFT circular that seems to reference these bus gates.
One point I note is section 9.7.3.  

A bus gate is a short length of bus‑only street. On a two‑way road, access may be
restricted to buses in one direction only, with all traffic permitted in the opposite direction, i.e.
similar to a contraflow lane, but too short to be signed as such. In this case, that part of the
carriageway reserved for buses should be separated from the opposing flow of traffic by a
traffic island and not by a continuous line marking to diagram 1049A (see Figure 9-25). Bus
gates are often used to remove through traffic from a road but allow full access. They effectively
create a “no through road” for all traffic other than buses. The bus gate may be located either
at a junction or part way along a road, and may be used by other vehicles where permitted by
the order. If a bus gate is placed on a road that was previously a signed route or was used by
significant through traffic, consideration should be given to providing or changing directional
signing to guide prohibited traffic to use the preferred alternative route, as described in 5.1.2.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/782724/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf

I'd argue that the lack of warning about the Bus Gate, the incorrectly painted arrows directing you to the Bus Gate lane and the update from the previous design (which was in use up until 2018 as I have screenshots showing this) shows that this consideration has not been taken.

8
I've looked through many of the threads but it seems this Bus Gate is constantly changing over the years, annoying had it been a red 'bus lane' I would know not to use it as I am used to seeing these in London and signposted as such, I have never heard of the 'Bus Gate' term nor is it mentioned in the Highway Code to my knowledge.

I don't recall seeing any warnings about the 'Bus Gate' or CCTV enforcement only the width restriction with no clear indication that I needed to move to the middle of the road until I was literally stuck in the left lane.

For some reason I cannot upload the back of the PCN to imgpile as its blocked but I uploaded it here: https://postimg.cc/fkHBdsMj
Please let me know if I have any grounds to appeal.

Thanks!

9
Sorry, but we do need to see the PCN, and your reg number too, which is on it, However always blank-out name and address. Your registration is in view to all and sundry as you drive around, so it's not a big secret. See here: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Sorry I missed that thread but I've added a photo of the PCN.

10
Hi all,

I can see that this road is popular here and I have just received my PCN this morning for driving through the 'Bus Gate' lane of this road.
I'm not from this area and was following Waze which didn't alert me of any traffic restrictions or otherwise, the road was empty so I had no other cars to follow, I've never seen or heard of a 'Bus Gate' only the Red bus only lanes; Hilariously my CCTV footage also shows the driver behind me doing the same thing and likely the one behind them too.

Looking on Google Maps I notice that these lanes used to be red bus only lanes and then were changed to the much less easy-to-spot bus gate design, can't help but think that was intentional especially with the BBC news reporting they make 1.8m a year from this road alone.

Unfortunately for me I can't blame the weather as the CCTV shows it was a nice sunny day although you can see me slow down to the give way line clearly confused at this junction but not realising I needed to move to the middle of the road; I can see some appeals based on signage but realistically do these help my case or is this something I should just pay in this situation?
(Fortunately I think there was traffic on the way back so I likely followed the other cars through the restriction or went a different route home, will let you know if I get another separate PCN for the other direction).

PCN:


https://imgpile.com/p/TVVcQJF#fYMenrZ

Thank you.

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