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Messages - LongTimeListenerFirstTimeAppealer

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1
Thank you very much, again, for your thoughtful reply.  I waited to provide an update/ask more questions until anything changed.  My friend has now recieved a fairly unhelpful reply from their property manager saying:

"Good morning thank you for your email.  Please refer to the caretaker as I think you have parked in bays which are for another block.  We are unable to assist with any parking tickets.  Thanks"


The managers of the block adjacent to the VP spaces simply replied:

"The tenant will not have a visitor permit for this space, as the spaces belong to X not Y.  Unfortunately, I am not in the position to have the charge cancelled, if you wish to appeal then you will need to contact UKCPS directly."


You have clearly explained the other points from my previous message, although I would, for my own understanding, like to clarify one thing.  You say the physical notice to keeper is the only relevant document, and not the information on the UKCPS website.  The notice to keeper includes a link, "the photographic evidence may be viewed on www..." which contained pictures implying a period of 11 minutes.  Do these images have no baring at all simply due to their absence from the notice to keeper?  I acknowledge this may seem a pointless question due to your point regarding 10 minutes potentially being insufficient consideration!


With the IAS stage being seen as merely procedural, what is the value of engaging with this process?

Thanks for the help, and for following up during the vacuum between Christmas and New Years!

2
I have now received a rejection for my appeal that was submitted to UKCPS:

"Thank you for your appeal submitted on 11th December 2025. After reviewing your comments, and carefully
considering the evidence collected at the time the Parking Charge was issued, we regret to inform you that your
appeal has been unsuccessful. The reasons for our decision are detailed below:

We have reviewed your appeal and the points raised; however, the Parking Charge remains valid.
It was observed that you failed to display a valid permit. Parking terms and conditions, including permit
requirements, are implemented to ensure an efficient and organised parking system for all residents, tenants,
visitors, etc. It is imperative that all individuals adhere to these terms and conditions to maintain order and fairness.

Whilst we acknowledge that there may have been mitigating circumstances, it remains the responsibility of the
driver to comply with the parking terms and conditions and properly display a valid permit at all times. Failure to do so can inconvenience others and disrupt the overall parking arrangements.
While you state that the driver was visiting a resident, this does not exempt the vehicle from complying with the parking terms. Visitors are required to ensure that they are correctly authorised to park and that any applicable permit requirements are met. Responsibility rests with the driver to familiarise themselves with the terms and conditions before leaving the vehicle parked.

The signage on site clearly sets out the parking restrictions, and by remaining parked, the driver accepted those terms. The Parking Charge was therefore issued correctly following a breach of the conditions.

With regard to your comments on contractual liability and the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we are satisfied
that the Parking Charge Notice was issued in accordance with the applicable legislation and Code of Practice.
In light of the above, we are unable to cancel the Parking Charge, which remains outstanding.

Attached, you will find photographic evidence showing the vehicle parked at the location mentioned above.
We have extended the opportunity for you to pay the reduced amount of, £60.00, until 06/01/2026, after this date, the full amount of £100.00 will be due."



Here are my questions at this stage:

The pictures included in this reply show the car at 12:48:09 and also at 12:58.13.  Does this change anything?  The later picture was not included on the notice to keeper, but was present on the website where the charge could be appealed or paid.

If the VP spaces are intended for the use of visitors of a specific building, and not the neighbouring one, what impact might this have?

Am I right in thinking this reply does not seem to have properly addressed the issue of prohibitive language re. the sign, and the failure to establish a contract?


I am seeing the resident in a few days, so I will catch up on who they have emailed and what responses they have had.  So far I have received no follow-up from the property manager.

P.S. b789 was completely correct about the 14 day period and UKCPS offering £60 again.

3
Here is the final version I went with, and also the supporting photograph

Photograph of numbered bays next to VP spot -

https://i.ibb.co/r2LmLJxc/Numbered-spaces-next-to-VP-spaces.png


I selected "Registered keeper" for appeal and confirmed my details only as the keepers, then chose "Other" for my appeal reason.



The vehicle was parked in a bay clearly marked “VP” while visiting a resident.  The driver was an invited visitor to a lawful resident of the estate.  Other bays are individually numbered and obviously reserved for specific flats.  I have attached a photograph showing the spaces which are allocated by number to specific residents.  It is entirely reasonable to understand “VP” as a visitor parking bay.  There is no information anywhere on site explaining a visitor-permit scheme or how a visitor could obtain a permit.

The parking sign states that “Parking is permitted for permit holders only when parking wholly in their allocated bays and displaying a valid permit clearly within the windscreen at all times.”  That is a prohibitive sign: it does not make any offer at all to a driver who does not already hold a permit, and it says nothing about visitor bays or visitor permits.  A sign which simply forbids parking without a permit cannot create any contractual liability for a non-permit holder.  On its own wording, the sign is incapable of forming a contractual agreement with a visitor who does not already possess some undefined permit.  In those circumstances, the only possible allegation would be trespass, which only the landowner could pursue, not UKCPS.

No contract could have been formed as UKCPS have not evidenced any period of parking beyond the obligatory minimum consideration period.  A driver is entitled to enter, locate a space, read and consider the terms and then decide whether to stay.  The Notice to Keeper only shows a single “time of issue” and no entry and exit times, no observation period, and no evidence that the vehicle was stationary for longer than the minimum consideration period allowed by the applicable Code of Practice.  Without a recorded period of parking beyond that initial consideration period, UKCPS cannot show that the driver had a fair chance to read the terms, agree to them and then breach them.

As Keeper, I challenge any attempt to rely on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.  The Notice to Keeper does not “specify the period of parking” at all; it gives a single timestamp only.  A moment in time is not a period of parking.  Because the statutory wording has not been met, UKCPS cannot transfer any alleged liability from the unidentified driver to me as Keeper. I will not be naming the driver, and there is no legal obligation on me to do so.

To conclude, (1) the “VP” marking reasonably indicates visitor parking; (2) there is no clear or prominent information about any visitor-permit requirement; (3) the sign is prohibitive and incapable of creating a contract with a non-permit holder; (4) no period of parking beyond the minimum consideration period has been evidenced, so no contract could have been formed or breached; and (5) the Notice to Keeper fails to comply with PoFA because it does not specify any period of parking, so I, as Keeper, cannot be held liable.

I invite UKCPS to cancel the charge on these grounds.



I will try again with the property managers.  I had asked my friend to email as well on my behalf, so I'll check whether he's done that, and if not I'll give him the souped-up version!

Thank you again, b789, for your help and advice.  The draft is 99% based on the factual points you listed.  That's a good point re. their internal appeals process!  Seeing as UKCPS are part of IPC, I understand the next stage of their process is the Independent Appeals Service, but it sounds like "Independent" is questionably used in this case!

4
I have now received replies from the property managers that I contacted.  Unfortunately they all said, "We can't help, contact UKCPS..."  With that in mind I am planning to submit my appeal tomorrow, 11/12, on the 13th day since the notice was considered posted.

Please have a look at what I have drafted.  It's almost identical to b789's post.  If I am in danger of imminent FUBAR, please warn me and I'll change things up!  The original reply seemed comprehensive, factual, and well worded.

I will be supporting the appeal with an image that clearly shows the accompanying numbered bays, to help differentiate the allocated spots from visitor parking.

Cheers for taking a look.



The vehicle was parked in a bay clearly marked “VP” while visiting a resident.  Other bays are individually numbered and obviously reserved for specific flats.  It is entirely reasonable to understand “VP” as a visitor parking bay.  There is no information anywhere on site explaining a visitor-permit scheme or how a visitor could obtain a permit.

The parking sign states that “Parking is permitted for permit holders only when parking wholly in their allocated bays and displaying a valid permit clearly within the windscreen at all times.”  That is a prohibitive sign: it does not make any offer at all to a driver who does not already hold a permit, and it says nothing about visitor bays or visitor permits.  A sign which simply forbids parking without a permit cannot create any contractual liability for a non-permit holder.  On its own wording, the sign is incapable of forming a contractual agreement with a visitor who does not already possess some undefined permit.

No contract could have been formed as UKCPS have not evidenced any period of parking beyond the obligatory minimum consideration period.  A driver is entitled to enter, locate a space, read and consider the terms and then decide whether to stay.  The Notice to Keeper only shows a single “time of issue” and no entry and exit times, no observation period, and no evidence that the vehicle was stationary for longer than the minimum consideration period allowed by the industry Code.  Without a recorded period of parking beyond that initial consideration period, UKCPS cannot show that the driver had a fair chance to read the terms, agree to them and then breach them.

As Keeper, I challenge any attempt to rely on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.  The Notice to Keeper does not “specify the period of parking” at all; it gives a single timestamp only.  A moment in time is not a period of parking.  Because the statutory wording has not been met, UKCPS cannot transfer any alleged liability from the unidentified driver to me as Keeper. I will not be naming the driver, and there is no legal obligation on me to do so.

To conclude, (1) the “VP” marking reasonably indicates visitor parking; (2) there is no clear or prominent information about any visitor-permit requirement; (3) the sign is prohibitive and incapable of creating a contract with a non-permit holder; (4) no period of parking beyond the minimum consideration period has been evidenced, so no contract could have been formed or breached; and (5) the Notice to Keeper fails to comply with PoFA because it does not specify any period of parking, so I, as Keeper, cannot be held liable.

I invite UKCPS to cancel the charge on these grounds.

5
Cheers b789, that's a really comprehensive and helpful reply!


The driver was visiting a resident of that estate.  The driver does not live at this property. The resident has their own numbered parking space.  The resident has since said they are unaware of any visitor permits, such as a book of visitor permit tickets. 

My first action is contacting the property management company on Monday morning.  I've tracked down their details, so I'll ask if they can waive the charge.


If the property management company will not ask UKPC to waive the ticket -

The notice to keeper was sent on 26/11, and states it considers the letter to be received after 2 working days, on 28/11.  This implies that a 14 day appeal can be made anytime before 12/12.  I was planning to appeal as the keeper on 11/12.

I have read that appealing via the UKCPS portal is unlikely to succeed, but is still a necessary step.  Following your helpful comment on entrappment, I would choose "other".  My initial thought had been to contest that the car is clearly parked in a visitor space, and that the driver was legitimately using this space to visit a resident of the building.


"Bring these strands together by stating that: (1) the “VP” marking reasonably indicates visitor parking; (2) there is no clear or prominent information about any visitor-permit requirement; (3) the sign is prohibitive and incapable of creating a contract with a non-permit holder; (4) no period of parking beyond the minimum consideration period has been evidenced, so no contract could have been formed or breached; and (5) the Notice to Keeper fails to comply with PoFA because it does not specify any period of parking, so you, as Keeper, cannot be held liable. Invite UKCPS to cancel the charge on these grounds."


After reading your reply + information on FTLA, MSE, and Parking Cowboys, I can't disagree with anything you've typed.  From my (admittedly limited) understanding, the prohibitive sign seems to be a particularly strong defence, as UKCPS would rely on entering a contract.  As I said, cracking reply and thank you for your help.  I'll update with any developments.

6
Hi all,

A car for which I am registered keeper was parked in a bay marked 'VP' outside an apartment.  Other bays owned by residents are marked by numbers.  The car has been parked in this location before with no issue.  The car was parked on Sunday 23/11/25, and the Notice to Keeper is dated 26/11/25 and arrived 04/12/25.

Notice to keeper pictures:

https://ibb.co/zKW2Qr8

https://ibb.co/ns60KwTT

I believe that the VP spaces are designated visitor parking for people visiting residents of the apartment.  I am unaware of any visitor parking permit system. 

Parking sign:

https://ibb.co/gLf5nLLB

The car appears to be correctly parked in a visitor bay.

Parked car with VP marking:

https://ibb.co/nqV3nMrS

I note that the appeal reason, "I was a visitor/guest on site" seems to act as confirmation of the driver?

Appeals form:

https://ibb.co/whksBh21

What do you think of my chances with this one?  Any obvious issues that I may have or further information I should supply?  I was planning to follow the UKCPS appeals process as I have received the notice to keeper, but I'm unsure which reason I should go with.  Is the template text from MSE forums applicable to my case?

Cheers for reading and thanks for any help.

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