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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« on: November 02, 2025, 06:50:36 pm »
Thank you for the advice @Incandescent. I've incorporated your suggestions and submitted the appeal to the London Tribunals yesterday. Happy to post the whole appeal if that would be helpful.

I would be very grateful for any guidance on preparing for the hearing itself, as I have no experience with tribunal proceedings. What should I expect, and how should I present my case on the day? Would any of the seasoned members on this forum be willing to represent me at the hearing?

Many thanks again for everyone's help so far.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« on: October 26, 2025, 10:28:16 pm »
Thanks for the explanation @Incandescent, I get confused by all the different rules.

I'm about to submit my appeal to the London Tribunals; should I just copy/paste my original representation, or add anything else?

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« on: October 16, 2025, 12:47:19 pm »
As expected, Havering rejected my representation:

 - https://i.ibb.co/XZThhHSq/rejection1.jpg
 - https://i.ibb.co/TxWgDfMn/rejection2.jpg

They didn't even bother to pretend that it's anything other than an unscrupulous money grab. They blatantly ignored all my grounds, just vaguely mentioned something about the highway code, and ignored any legislation. They didn't bother addressing the late service, the non-existent location (which they even mentioned twice more in the rejection letter), or providing any evidence of the required signage. I'd be livid if I didn't already expect this.

On top of that, the rejection was (deemed) served on 7 Oct 2025 (although actually received on the 8th), so almost two and a half months (75 days) after the representations. I'm not sure I understand the legislation correctly, but I was under the impression that they have 56 days to reject the representations. Did I misunderstand this? (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/576/regulation/6)

Either way, I guess it's tribunals time, as they didn't even re-offer the discount. I have never had PCN taken this far, so I'd appreciate any advice on what to do next from the veterans of this forum.

Many thanks in advance!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« on: July 24, 2025, 09:30:02 am »
Hi Hippocrates, just saw your advice to keep the legalese to a minimum on another thread where Havering served the PCN after the 28-day limit. I commented there to link the two, in case that's useful, but didn't really want to discuss my situation on someone else's thread, so I'm going to do so here: should I do the same and remove the references to the legislation from my representation draft? I definitely don't want to be educating the council if I don't have to. Maybe something like this? Should I remove anything else?


Dear Havering

Ref: PCN                          VRM

I am writing to make this formal representation against the said PCN. I contend that the PCN should be cancelled on the following grounds:

(1) The Penalty Charge Notice was served on the 30th day following the alleged contravention.

 - Date of the alleged contravention: 16 June 2025
 - Date of issue: Fri, 11 July 2025
 - Deemed date of service: Tue, 15 July 2025
 - Elapsed period: 30 days.

According to paragraph (6) of Regulation 10 of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions Regulations 2022, an enforcement authority must serve a PCN within "28-day period" beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred. Serving the PCN on the 30th day falls outside this statutory timeframe, rendering the PCN invalid.

(2) The location "Balgores Rd" specified in the PCN does not exist or is incorrectly named within the geographical area of the alleged contravention. A PCN must accurately specify the location where the contravention is alleged to have occurred. I deny that I stopped at the location specified in the PCN at the time and date of the alleged contravention. The inaccuracy of the location detail makes the PCN fundamentally flawed and unenforceable.

(3) The alleged contravention did not occur. The photographic or other evidence provided by the Council does not clearly show the presence of the "relevant upright sign" as specified in Part 6 of Schedule 7 of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. Without clear evidence of the prescribed signage being present and visible at the time of the alleged contravention, the contravention cannot be proven.

Therefore, I respectfully request that you cancel the PCN forthwith.

Yours faithfully

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« on: July 24, 2025, 09:21:47 am »
I believe that my thread may have been the inspiration behind Jamezz65's draft. Looks like Havering is really struggling to serve the PCNs in time. However, my case is a different contravention and has a couple of other defects, so please heed the advice of the more experienced members. I'm still relatively new to this.

I'd be curious to know if I should also follow Hippocrates' advice and remove the legalese from my representation as well, or if this case is different. I don't want to hijack your thread, though, so I'll ask the same question on my thread instead. Good luck!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« on: July 23, 2025, 10:09:42 pm »
Thank you, I’ll be submitting it tomorrow and I’ll report back with the results once they respond.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« on: July 23, 2025, 08:10:32 am »
I have drafted the following representation. Please let me know if there's anything I should add, remove, or change, I'm still very much new to all this. Many thanks for everyone's help!
Dear Havering

Ref: PCN                          VRM

I am writing to make this formal representation against the said PCN. I contend that the PCN should be cancelled on the following grounds:

(1) The Penalty Charge Notice was served on the 30th day following the alleged contravention.

 - Date of the alleged contravention: 16 June 2025
 - Date of issue: Fri, 11 July 2025
 - Deemed date of service: Tue, 15 July 2025
 - Elapsed period: 30 days.

According to paragraph (6) of Regulation 10 of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions Regulations 2022, an enforcement authority must serve a PCN within "28-day period" beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred. Serving the PCN on the 30th day falls outside this statutory timeframe, rendering the PCN invalid.

(2) The location "Balgores Rd" specified in the PCN does not exist or is incorrectly named within the geographical area of the alleged contravention. A PCN must accurately specify the location where the contravention is alleged to have occurred. I deny that I stopped at the location specified in the PCN at the time and date of the alleged contravention. The inaccuracy of the location detail makes the PCN fundamentally flawed and unenforceable.

(3) The alleged contravention did not occur. The photographic or other evidence provided by the Council does not clearly show the presence of the "relevant upright sign" as specified in Part 6 of Schedule 7 of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. Without clear evidence of the prescribed signage being present and visible at the time of the alleged contravention, the contravention cannot be proven.

Therefore, I respectfully request that you cancel the PCN forthwith.

Yours faithfully

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« on: July 20, 2025, 12:16:14 pm »
Thanks Hippocrates, I’ll look for other cases here with similar defects and try to come with a draft 👍

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Havering 47J Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand, Station Road RM2
« on: July 20, 2025, 12:12:20 pm »
Looks like this is Havering’s favourite bus stop to enforce these, but yours really takes the cake in their ignorance and greed.

This may be of little use at this stage, but as someone pointed out in my tread, the location they use in their correspondence does not exists, as there is no Balgores Rd (only Balgores Ln).

Best of luck in your next dealing with them!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« on: July 20, 2025, 11:50:33 am »
Hi, I’ll be sending the above representation to Havering tomorrow, unless anyone has any other suggestions? Many thanks!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« on: July 16, 2025, 12:53:22 pm »
Many thanks everyone for your help.

I will be making a representation based on the late service as kindly suggested by H C Andersen.

Quote from: mrmustard on July 15, 2025, 04:58:52 pm
Balgores Rd does not exist so deny the contravention on the ground that you were not there

With regards to the location, I think they incorrectly refer to Balgores Ln as Balgores Rd, which does exist and is near the Station Rd in question (possibly to distinguish from other Station Roads in the borough). Is such a small error enough to deny the contravention? I remember seeing replies in other threads that this kind of typo may be allowed by an adjudicator.

Considering the above, I'm wondering if it's worth tacking this on as a secondary reason in the representation, or simply going with the late service only. If so, should I mention explicitly that it does not exist, or simply deny ever being/stopping on it?

Here's a draft of what I'm planning to send them:

Dear Havering

Ref: PCN                          VRM

I make this formal representation against the said PCN:

The PCN is unenforceable because it was served after the 28-day period had expired.

Date of contravention: 16 June

Date of issue: Fri. 11 July

Deemed date of service: Tue. 15 July

Elapsed period: 30 days.

Additionally, I did not stop on any part of Balgores Rd at the time and date of the alleged contravention.

Therefore, please cancel it forthwith.
Yours faithfully



Any advice is welcome, thanks!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« on: July 15, 2025, 03:10:40 pm »
Hi,

I'm seeking guidance and assistance with a PCN from the London Borough of Havering for an alleged contravention of 47J - Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand.

The alleged contravention occurred on 16 June 2025, and the PCN dated 11 July 2025 was received today, 15 July 2025.

 - PCN: https://i.ibb.co/zTCG6jQW/pcn1.jpg (please let me know if you need the other pages as well)
 - Video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bT9Ps_Dsg-NQcQR-2_x3c8IdA2ly_U2q/view?usp=sharing
 - Google Street View: https://maps.app.goo.gl/YY9yKh7gXKJRT23d9

As you can see, the driver stopped at a bus stop for approximately 10 seconds to pick up a passenger. The driver didn't realise there was a clearway sign attached to the bus stop pole further down (you can see on the video when the driver realised while departing). Confusingly, there is a pole at the beginning of the bay, right next to where the car stopped, with no signage.

Additionally, I'd be grateful if someone could clarify the timelines for me, as I'm not sure what dates are relevant (issue or actual delivery?), and how the 28 days are calculated. The PCN was received today, 15 July 2025 (Tuesday), despite being issued on 11 July 2025 (Friday). If my math is correct, this makes it 29 days after the alleged contravention (or 30 days if the day of contravention is also counted).

I would like to understand if it makes sense to challenge this, and if so, how should I phrase my representation?

Many thanks!

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