3. Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
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Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
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Hi,

I'm seeking guidance and assistance with a PCN from the London Borough of Havering for an alleged contravention of 47J - Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand.

The alleged contravention occurred on 16 June 2025, and the PCN dated 11 July 2025 was received today, 15 July 2025.

 - PCN: https://i.ibb.co/zTCG6jQW/pcn1.jpg (please let me know if you need the other pages as well)
 - Video:
Media.mp4
Google Docs · drive.google.com

 - Google Street View:
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps. · maps.app.goo.gl


As you can see, the driver stopped at a bus stop for approximately 10 seconds to pick up a passenger. The driver didn't realise there was a clearway sign attached to the bus stop pole further down (you can see on the video when the driver realised while departing). Confusingly, there is a pole at the beginning of the bay, right next to where the car stopped, with no signage.

Additionally, I'd be grateful if someone could clarify the timelines for me, as I'm not sure what dates are relevant (issue or actual delivery?), and how the 28 days are calculated. The PCN was received today, 15 July 2025 (Tuesday), despite being issued on 11 July 2025 (Friday). If my math is correct, this makes it 29 days after the alleged contravention (or 30 days if the day of contravention is also counted).

I would like to understand if it makes sense to challenge this, and if so, how should I phrase my representation?

Many thanks!
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Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #1 on: »
2 days is allowed for the post, plus the 28 days limit on service of a PCN.
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Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #2 on: »
Balgores Rd does not exist so deny the contravention on the ground that you were not there
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I am currently too busy working to take on any except the most unreasonable PCNs.

I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #3 on: »
(6) Subject to paragraph (8), an enforcement authority may not give a penalty charge notice under this regulation after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the contravention date (“the 28-day period”).

Date of contravention: 16 June

Date of issue: Fri. 11 July

Deemed date of service: Tue. 15 July

Elapsed period: 30 days.

Prima facie it's void for being served out of time. The burden is on the council to demonstrate that they may rely upon one of the exemptions.

Paras. (7) and (8):
The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022
These Regulations, together with the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022 (S.I. 2022/XXXX), provide for the civil enforcement of...
legislation.gov.uk
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Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #4 on: »
The latest argument is the best one
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I am currently too busy working to take on any except the most unreasonable PCNs.

I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #5 on: »
Many thanks everyone for your help.

I will be making a representation based on the late service as kindly suggested by H C Andersen.

Quote from: mrmustard on July 15, 2025, 04:58:52 pm
Balgores Rd does not exist so deny the contravention on the ground that you were not there

With regards to the location, I think they incorrectly refer to Balgores Ln as Balgores Rd, which does exist and is near the Station Rd in question (possibly to distinguish from other Station Roads in the borough). Is such a small error enough to deny the contravention? I remember seeing replies in other threads that this kind of typo may be allowed by an adjudicator.

Considering the above, I'm wondering if it's worth tacking this on as a secondary reason in the representation, or simply going with the late service only. If so, should I mention explicitly that it does not exist, or simply deny ever being/stopping on it?

Here's a draft of what I'm planning to send them:

Dear Havering

Ref: PCN                          VRM

I make this formal representation against the said PCN:

The PCN is unenforceable because it was served after the 28-day period had expired.

Date of contravention: 16 June

Date of issue: Fri. 11 July

Deemed date of service: Tue. 15 July

Elapsed period: 30 days.

Additionally, I did not stop on any part of Balgores Rd at the time and date of the alleged contravention.

Therefore, please cancel it forthwith.
Yours faithfully



Any advice is welcome, thanks!
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Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #6 on: »
Putting 'Road' instead of 'Lane' is surely not just a typing error, it it ? I would include this in your reps.
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Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #7 on: »
Hi, I’ll be sending the above representation to Havering tomorrow, unless anyone has any other suggestions? Many thanks!
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Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #8 on: »
Failure to maintain signage and where does it actually begin? Another fun one from Havering.
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #9 on: »
Thanks Hippocrates, I’ll look for other cases here with similar defects and try to come with a draft 👍
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Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #10 on: »
There is indeed a yellow sign on the bus stop pole that says no stopping except buses. However, if this gets as far as the adjudicator, if the council fails to enclose a photo of that sign, the case could be won on that matter. But as Balgores Road doesn't seem to exist....
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Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #11 on: »
I have drafted the following representation. Please let me know if there's anything I should add, remove, or change, I'm still very much new to all this. Many thanks for everyone's help!
Dear Havering

Ref: PCN                          VRM

I am writing to make this formal representation against the said PCN. I contend that the PCN should be cancelled on the following grounds:

(1) The Penalty Charge Notice was served on the 30th day following the alleged contravention.

 - Date of the alleged contravention: 16 June 2025
 - Date of issue: Fri, 11 July 2025
 - Deemed date of service: Tue, 15 July 2025
 - Elapsed period: 30 days.

According to paragraph (6) of Regulation 10 of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions Regulations 2022, an enforcement authority must serve a PCN within "28-day period" beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred. Serving the PCN on the 30th day falls outside this statutory timeframe, rendering the PCN invalid.

(2) The location "Balgores Rd" specified in the PCN does not exist or is incorrectly named within the geographical area of the alleged contravention. A PCN must accurately specify the location where the contravention is alleged to have occurred. I deny that I stopped at the location specified in the PCN at the time and date of the alleged contravention. The inaccuracy of the location detail makes the PCN fundamentally flawed and unenforceable.

(3) The alleged contravention did not occur. The photographic or other evidence provided by the Council does not clearly show the presence of the "relevant upright sign" as specified in Part 6 of Schedule 7 of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. Without clear evidence of the prescribed signage being present and visible at the time of the alleged contravention, the contravention cannot be proven.

Therefore, I respectfully request that you cancel the PCN forthwith.

Yours faithfully
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Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #12 on: »
I like it.
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
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Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #13 on: »
Thank you, I’ll be submitting it tomorrow and I’ll report back with the results once they respond.
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Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
« Reply #14 on: »
Hi Hippocrates, just saw your advice to keep the legalese to a minimum on another thread where Havering served the PCN after the 28-day limit. I commented there to link the two, in case that's useful, but didn't really want to discuss my situation on someone else's thread, so I'm going to do so here: should I do the same and remove the references to the legislation from my representation draft? I definitely don't want to be educating the council if I don't have to. Maybe something like this? Should I remove anything else?


Dear Havering

Ref: PCN                          VRM

I am writing to make this formal representation against the said PCN. I contend that the PCN should be cancelled on the following grounds:

(1) The Penalty Charge Notice was served on the 30th day following the alleged contravention.

 - Date of the alleged contravention: 16 June 2025
 - Date of issue: Fri, 11 July 2025
 - Deemed date of service: Tue, 15 July 2025
 - Elapsed period: 30 days.

According to paragraph (6) of Regulation 10 of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions Regulations 2022, an enforcement authority must serve a PCN within "28-day period" beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred. Serving the PCN on the 30th day falls outside this statutory timeframe, rendering the PCN invalid.

(2) The location "Balgores Rd" specified in the PCN does not exist or is incorrectly named within the geographical area of the alleged contravention. A PCN must accurately specify the location where the contravention is alleged to have occurred. I deny that I stopped at the location specified in the PCN at the time and date of the alleged contravention. The inaccuracy of the location detail makes the PCN fundamentally flawed and unenforceable.

(3) The alleged contravention did not occur. The photographic or other evidence provided by the Council does not clearly show the presence of the "relevant upright sign" as specified in Part 6 of Schedule 7 of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016. Without clear evidence of the prescribed signage being present and visible at the time of the alleged contravention, the contravention cannot be proven.

Therefore, I respectfully request that you cancel the PCN forthwith.

Yours faithfully
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  3. Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd / Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)