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Messages - PJMLP

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When I select those answers I am given the following error message: "Unless you were either the driver or the keeper at the relevant time you may not continue with this appeal." Then I am able to select either "Amend appeal" or "Cancel appeal" to continue.

It seems I am forced to admit to being either the keeper or the driver.

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Whilst filling out the IAS form, I am asked the following questions:

1. Who are you representing / appealing the Notice of Unpaid Tariff on behalf of? - The options provided are: Myself OR Another person.

2. Are you being held liable for the charge? - The options provided are: Yes OR No.

3. Were you the driver at the relevant time? - The options provided are: Yes OR No OR I am not prepared to say.

4. Were you the keeper at the relevant time? - The options provided are: Yes OR No.

Please advise how I should respond to these questions.

Many thanks in advance.
 

4
Hi B789, thanks for your quick response.

Yes I sent the appeal as the hirer, selecting 'Vehicle hirer' in a drop down menu next to 'Your association' when submitting the appeal.
Nowhere did I state who the driver was and I sent the appeal exactly as you advised, reading: "I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner. As your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. The Operator has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only. The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. CPM have no hope should you ever attempt to litigate, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN."

I can confirm that when I recieved the original PCN from CPM, it was not accompanied by the NtK, hire agreement or statement of liability. The only other correspondence I recieved was the £35 admin fee letter from Enterprise informing me of the alleged 'traffic violation', that they are required to provide the hirer details to the issuing authority and stating that I was liable as per the rental agreement.

I will send the IAS appeal exactly as suggested, thanks for providing this.

When you say they will issue a claim, does this mean CPM will try to take me to court but it is unlikely I will have to actually attend court? I ask as I really can't afford a lawyer.

Thanks again.

5
Hi, I recieved the following response from CPM. It worries me that they state that liability has been transferred into my name when I never said who was driving.

Any advice on how to proceed would be most appreciated. Thanks.

"Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge Notice.

At UK CPM we consider all appeals on a case-by-case basis. We take each appeal very seriously and thoroughly investigate any evidence that has been provided. We appreciate your circumstances and understand this is not a situation anyone would like to find themselves in; however, these parking conditions have been put in place to ensure fair usage for all motorists and support the needs of our client. After careful consideration, it is unfortunate that I am writing to you today to advise that on this occasion, your appeal has been unsuccessful.

The decision to uphold your parking charge notice has been made on the following basis.

Whilst we note the comments and reason for appeal, we can confirm that the vehicle remained on site for 34 minutes with no permit to authorise your stay. We must advise that this car park is run by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras which take a time and date stamped image of the vehicle on entry and exit, measuring the length of time the vehicle remained on site, this information is then cross-referenced with the data from the permit systems. Due to no permit being found, we can confirm that this PCN has been issued correctly.       

Please note, a new notice will automatically be generated and sent to you, as the liability has been transferred into your name. This is for your records only and does not allow you to appeal again internally or transfer liability. You now have 14 days from the date of your new notice to make payment at the reduced fee of £60.00. If payment is not received within 14 days, the fee will increase to the full amount of £100.00. 

Either due to the reason for issue and/or the insufficient evidence provided to support the details of your appeal, we have considered this PCN and found that it does not fall under the category of Annex F the Appeals Charter of the Single Code of Practice. Therefore, if no further evidence is provided, we will deem this to be our final decision.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and therefore you now have two options; either pay or appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS) - you cannot do both.

To make payment of the total amount due as shown above, please use one of the following payment options;

Online: www.paymyticket.co.uk
Telephone: 0345 463 4040 (24hr)
Post: Payments & Collections, PO Box 3114, Lancing, BN15 5BR
Alternatively, if you do not agree with your internal appeal outcome and you wish to dispute the matter further, as you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 28 days of this rejection.

The Independent Appeals Service (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. If you decide to appeal to the IAS, you will need to visit their website and use your PCN reference and corresponding vehicle registration. All PCN's will be uploaded to the IAS website by the end of this working day.

If you appeal this charge further then you will lose the ability to pay at the reduced rate (if applicable). In the event that your IAS appeal is unsuccessful, the full amount for the PCN will then be payable. If you lodge an appeal with the IAS and then subsequently pay the charge prior to that appeal being determined, then the appeal will be withdrawn, and you will not be given a further opportunity to contest the charge.

If you do not wish to dispute the matter further and payment is not received within 28 days of the date of this correspondence then additional charges may be incurred, for which you may be liable. If the charge continues to remain outstanding, the matter may be later referred for litigation in the County Court which could result in a County Court Judgment being made against you; this may impact on your ability to obtain credit in the future."

7
Thanks again for your reply.

The rental agreement states the following:
"TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS, PARKING AND TOLLS: I acknowledge that for the Rental Period I am liable for all traffic violations; parking fees, fines and/or penalties; toll fees and/or penalties; and any associated administrative costs."

And the t&c's state this:
"4. Renter's Main Obligations
(a) Renter is required to:
(viii) pay any administrative fines, fees, charges, costs, penalties, or other fines that are imposed, issued or incurred in connection with the Renter's usage of the Vehicle during the Rental Period (including usage of the Vehicle by Authorised Drivers or other third parties who are permitted by Renter to use the Vehicle), such as fines or fees for illegal parking or speeding, non-compliance with bus lane, congestion charges, tolls or violations of the rules of the highway or traffic offence or contravention in any country, in all cases, and not caused by Owner;"

No mention of civil charges in either case. Is this because it relates to a private company issuing the PCN?

8
Hi b789,

Thanks for your reply. I will send your message on to CPM as suggested.

I've just checked my bank account today, it shows a pending charge for £35 from Enterprise that is dated yesterday (21st October). Would you suggest I send the exact same message to them?

Thanks again.

9


Hi Jfollows, thank you for your response, I really appreciate your willingness to help.

Excuse my ignorance but I am not sure exactly what you mean by this.

The only correspondence I recieved prior to this was an email which stated the following:

"Dear Customer,

Please find attached details of a traffic violation received during a recent rental. Please review the documents attached, which will provide all of the information you need.

*Please do not reply to this email address as it is not monitored*

Yours Sincerely..."

In addition, the email contained an attachment which I have included in this response.

Would this constitute the requirements you stated in your response?

Many thanks.

10



Hello, any advice on how to appeal this PCN received in the post today would be much appreciated. I will try to give as much information as possible. Thanks in advance.

It was a courtesy car from a major brand, who notified me via email three days prior that I had been issued a PCN from CPM. They also informed that I am liable for a £35 admin fee, for passing my details as the hirer on to the company. However, upon reviewing the hiring company's T&Cs, if the PCN has been issued in error I am not liable to pay this. Therefore, if I can avoid paying this I will (hopefully) avoid the admin fee as well.

I will be appealing this and fighting to the bitter end for the reasons listed below. Am I correct in using these points to appeal and will they hold up or should I use a different approach?

  • No indication of whether the PCN is in relation to a parking contravention, the vehicle being unregistered, or if it is due to exceeded time allowed (with no statement relating to what the maximum time allowed is).
  • No proof of who was driving the vehicle at the time.
  • No timestamp on the photos therefore no proof of whether the ANPR is accurate. In this regard, could I also argue that I would need to see evidence of the ANPR camera being calibrated, as well as requiring proof of competency of the operator (i.e. valid and in-date certificate to allow operation of the camera and the correct procedures used for recovery of evidence)?
  • Photos do not show the vehicle being parked. In fact, the vehicle is clearly in the middle of a road. Further to this, the brake lights and head lights are clearly visible suggesting the vehicle was still in operation.
  • No evidence that someone wasn't present in the vehicle at all times.
  • It is private land, but with public access. It is a residential area comprised of high rise flats. I believe legislation stipulates that one has to understand and agree to a contract for it to be upheld on private land.
  • Postcode in the PCN (IG11 7TS) refers to two potential areas comprised of several streets as per google maps. No street name has been specified of where the alleged offence took place.
  • No signs are clearly visible in the vicinity of the postcode stated in the PCN. In fact, after checking the general area (Weavers Quarter) of the alleged offence on google maps, signs are either very high up (approx. over 2.5m high on posts and with very small print) or are spray painted black as seen in this YouTube video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMlDrwqQz6Q ).
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Thanks again and much appreciated.

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