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Messages - pcnhelp123

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We definitely need to see the original Parking Charge Notice (PCN) because that NtK reminder clearly states that “A PARKING CHARGE WAS ISUED TO DRIVER”.

That could only mean that an NtD was issued.


Here is the original PCN.

The person is not able to post here as he is not computer/forum literate.

Thanks

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Welcome to FTLA.
To help us provide the best advice, please read the following thread carefully and provide as much of the information it asks for as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide

In addition to what you've shared it would be useful to see:
  • The Notice to Driver that was on the windscreen
  • Photos of the signage at the site, including ones showing their layout and prominence
  • If any appeal has thus far been submitted

It would be ideal if your friend could post here himself. Where people post on behalf of someone they know, it often has a tendency to turn into Chinese Whispers.
No appeal has been submitted yet but he did call them up and identify himself as the registered keeper, asking them for the original notice which was later found.

Unfortunately google maps doesn't show the signage in detail nor does it go further into the estate. On google maps I can barely make out it says "PRIVATE LAND PERMIT HOLDERS" on the sign into the road.

There was no notice on the windscreen. The NTK was received in the post, the entry and exit times were caught on ANPR. The driver stayed in the car for around 26 minutes then left.

I will upload the first notice shortly, I was told it was received sometime in January. Let me know if this is not enough information to make an appeal, I will let him know as he has left it quite late.

3
Hi asked about this from a friend who is RK.



Location:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4910153,-0.1171361,3a,63.1y,12.39h,91.28t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3AJXqDOxkBHaQxGMeru7sQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-1.2773961623675092%26panoid%3D3AJXqDOxkBHaQxGMeru7sQ%26yaw%3D12.388096455522211!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Driver was dropping someone off to what seems like a permit holders parking only. Stayed in the car for a bit over 26 minutes. Reason given is failed to make payment for visitor parking.

Is there any case to appeal here? Thanks


4
You appeal only as the Keeper of the Vehicle. NCP have no idea who the driver is unless you blab it to them, intentionally or otherwise.

No adding or removing from it...

Quote
I am the registered keeper. NCP cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, NCP will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Gatwick Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Gatwick Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because NCP is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for NCP's own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and NCP has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. NCP have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Excellent they cancelled it.

"Your appeal has been reviewed and has been considered in conjunction with the evidence gathered at the time of the contravention. Having considered the content of your letter this notice has been cancelled and no further action is required."

For future reference, the driver visits Gatwick a lot. Is there any limit to how often you can use this defence. 


5
You appeal only as the Keeper of the Vehicle. NCP have no idea who the driver is unless you blab it to them, intentionally or otherwise.

No adding or removing from it...

Quote
I am the registered keeper. NCP cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, NCP will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Gatwick Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Gatwick Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because NCP is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for NCP's own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and NCP has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. NCP have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Thanks for that. Just to be explicit, I'll select the appellant type as Vehicle's Keeper, fill in details for myself as the Keeper and copy paste the text above?

For the reasons it provides the following:


I'll select other and then enter the above. Hopefully that's right, didn't want to get any part of it wrong.

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RK received this PCN from NCP. Driver went up to the 2nd floor of Gatwick North Long Stay car park, briefly stopped before a small pedestrian crossing to pick up a passenger then left the car park.

NCP claim the breach was:
Quote
Parking on a pedestrian walkway or causing an obstruction to traffic flow, and liability for the same having been brought to the attention of the driver by clear signage in and around the car park

Regrettably I can't find signage for the car park on google maps. Please advise if this can be challenged. Cheers



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