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Messages - FrenchFlyer

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: June 06, 2025, 08:38:34 am »
So after a few more bizarre email exchanges which went along the lines of...

Me: You paid the PCN already so I can't appeal. Please tell me why Chichester refused to transfer liability.
Enterprise (cut and paste): You can appeal directly to the issuing authority. We are not responsible for their procedures.

..and Enterprise just ignoring my question about why Chichester Council refused to transfer liability.

I finally got another email saying:

Quote
Good morning

Thank you for your email

Whilst we understand and appreciate your frustration in regards to this matter ,as mentioned in our last email, the Notice to owner has not been dealt with at the time (by you as the hirer), therefore the issuing agency had reissued the fine to Enterprise.
As advised  we have requested transfer of liability to reissue the fine in your name .

However the issuing agency have rejected transfer of liability as  the Notice to owner( a physical tikets on the windscreen ) first issued  has not been dealt with at the time.
If you are not happy with the outcome wish to file a complaint outside Enterprise, you can do so by contacting the BVRLA .
 
The contact details for the BVRLA are https://www.bvrla.co.uk/consumer-advice/making-a-complaint-adr.html

I hope this clarifies the matter and thank you for your patience during this time

They seem to be conflating the PCN with the notice to owner, and talk about the fine being "reissued" to Enterprise.

I'm toying with the idea of writing to the BVRLA in any case, just to get some clarity for other people who find themselves in a situation where the hire company just "rolls over", pays a PCN on rejection, and then refuses to provide any more information.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: May 28, 2025, 08:51:35 am »
Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I have already raised this with our business manager, if only to express my frustration at their rather opaque procedures.

So to summarise (as far as I can make out).

- A PCN was issued to the car I was driving in February

- On 14 March Enterprise received an NTO and emailed me to say they would be naming me as the hirer and I would hear from Chichester Council in due course.

- I heard nothing further until 23 May, when I got another email from Enterprise saying Chichester Council had "refused to transfer liability to me". This was presumably the Notice of Rejection (the reference number they give has a "/REJ" suffix)

Enterprise have provided me with a copy of the original notice to owner, but have refused to provide the information they submitted in response to it, and have also refused to provide the Notice of Rejection which would show (I should imagine) the reasons given for refusal.

Given that the time between the NTO arriving and Chichester Council making the rejection is well over 28 days, it seems logical to assume they either replied out of time, or didn't provide correct details.

When I queried both of these points I got a rather bizarre mish-mash of cut-and-paste stock replies and bizarrely-worded, sometimes nonsensical "arguments" about GDPR, although as mentioned previously, I don't really see how these apply given I had given them consent to provide my details to Chichester Council.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: May 27, 2025, 06:48:23 pm »
Attached the letter of authority.

They mention transfer of liability (which according to other correspondence has already been refused!)



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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: May 27, 2025, 06:44:03 pm »
I DID receive a copy of the original Notice to Owner from March (on request) but what Enterprise are refusing to provide are the details they gave to Chichester Council (strange, given they are mine!) and the notice of rejection in which Chichester Council apparently refused to transfer liability to me.

Attached the notice to owner.

They have also sent me a "letter of authority".



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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: May 27, 2025, 05:39:44 pm »
Yes, I signed a standard rental agreement with them as I do 3/4 times per month all over Europe.

The "liability for fines" clause is standard for all rentals.

Giving their rather cagey response about the notice of rejection, I imagine they either incorrectly filed representations, or sent them out of time.

In all fairness to Enterprise, I have been a loyal customer for many years and always found their staff in rental branches to be very efficient.

I think the people dealing with traffic tickets may not be quite so efficient.


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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: May 27, 2025, 04:54:21 pm »
Hi all,

Some news on this case.

I requested details of the notice of rejection and received the attached (nonsensical??) email.

They seem utterly clueless as to the specifics of the case and just seem to cut and paste stock responses to any questions I ask.

Am I right in thinking that their having paid the fine means I have no right of appeal ?

Thanks for your help
FF

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: May 24, 2025, 11:23:04 am »
The "hirer" as far as Enterprise are concerned is absolutely the driver in their individual capacity: they sign the contract and their details are on the system. Our company is simply a source of funding for the rental.

When a staff member is caught speeding or committing any other offence, we (the company) receive no notification at all: Enterprise contact them directly.

Given we are a French company, this may be different to how it works in the UK. 90% of our rentals are in France and Belgium, and where I have incurred a fine (parking or speeding) it has always been redirected to me personally as the renter.

All of the invoices received from Enterprise thus far have also been addressed to me personally, at my personal address (no mention of the company).

I have requested copies of the notice of rejection from Enterprise, but they are closed on weekends so hopefull they will reply on Monday.

8
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: May 24, 2025, 10:32:20 am »
My company (of which I am the President) has an account with Enterprise.

We book the cars for our staff, the staff collect the cars, and we get an invoice on return.

The rental agreement is always with the renter in their personal capacity.

Billing of the rental + any unpaid extras (one way fees, fuel, etc) are invoiced to us at the end of the rental. They don't give a credit card and we stand as garantor for the damage excess.

However, any offences (speeding, parking...) plus admin fees are passed directly on to the driver, our company has no involvement with them at all. Payment is between the driver and Enterprise directly.

I don't object to them levying an admin fee (it was in the contract). What I do object to is their confusing procedure, whereby they say :

1) Here's a parking fine. We won't pay it, and will pass the details on to the council. You'll be able to appeal once they contact you.

Then a couple of weeks later....

2) Actually, it's too much effort to insist you were the hirer, so we'll just pay it, and sod your right of appeal.



9
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: May 24, 2025, 07:43:42 am »
They have invoiced me a £35 admin fee, and now invoiced me £70 for the parking fine.

They will be unable to take payment for either as the rental was through a corporate account (no credit card provided), so will be interesting to see how far they want to press the issue.

10
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: May 23, 2025, 10:18:45 pm »
Yes apologies for my mixing up of terminology, there is no reference to a charge notice, only a NTO dated 12 March (I have a copy) and an "enforcement notice" (referenced in correspondence but not yet seen).

However, when I try to login to the Chichester Council website, I get a message saying "it appears a charge certificate has been issued".

If there was a physical PCN on the vehicle I have no recollection of seeing one, the first I heard was the email from Enterprise after the NTO arrived.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: May 23, 2025, 09:26:41 pm »
Timeline :

6/2/25 Date of alleged Offence
12/3/25 NTO sent to Enterprise
22/5/25 : Email received saying "enforcement notice received" and payment made

I was first notified just after they received the notice to owner (see photo) where they clearly state "Enterprise will not pay this charge".

I subsequently received a further email yesterday where I was informed that they had paid it.

On querying why it had been paid, they stated they had received an "enforcement notice" which I assume was the Charge Certificate (see email response).

What seems nonsensical to me is that despite them having paid, they still state I can appeal (which is not the case, as I understand it).

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: May 23, 2025, 04:27:11 pm »
Thanks for your reply.

It was a car rented from the UK.

My French address was on the hire contract (I don't have any other address).

What I don't understand, is on what grounds the Council would refuse to recognise me as the hirer, given my address was provided and it is one of the statutory grounds for making representations?




13
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Chichester Council Rejected Driver Details from Hire Firm - Hire Firm paid PCN
« on: May 23, 2025, 02:09:34 pm »
Hello to all,

Quick overview of my situation :

In February I received a PCN for parking in a suspended bay in Chichester.

The first I knew of it was an email from the car rental company (Enterprise) in March, informing me they had received a notice to owner and would be naming me as the hirer.

Fast forward to yesterday, and I get another email from Enterprise stating that Chichester Council "refused to transfer liability to me" and had issued a charge certificate, which Enterprise had since paid.

I would add that I live in France.

Presumably, this extinguishes all possibility of my appealing the ticket? As far as I can see, it does, but Enterprise state:
Quote
Should you wish to appeal, you will still have the opportunity to do so, however please let us know so that a letter of authority can be issued to you providing our permission to liaise with the issuing authority whilst the fine remains in our name.

Thanks for your help.


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The Flame Pit / Re: Speeding offence in UK hire car for French resident with French licence.
« on: December 29, 2024, 03:23:08 pm »
Thanks for your reply.

It was on the Ripley bypass, southbound just after leaving the temporary 50mph limit as you come off the M25, definitely a 70 limit.

15
The Flame Pit / Speeding offence in UK hire car for French resident with French licence.
« on: December 29, 2024, 01:54:48 pm »
Hi,

Today on the A3 just outside of Guildford I passed a speed camera van at an indicated speed of circa 85mph (NSL Dual Carriageway).

I was in a UK-plated rental car.

I am a French citizen, French resident and have a French driving licence.

I understand (if detected) that I will receive a NIP from Surrey Police (where I incidentally passed selection to be a special while at University, almost 20 years ago).

Obviously, I have no issues holding my hands up to the offence and will reply to the NIP if and when received.

My question is: what will the likely consequences be?

Unless procedures have changed since I lived in the UK: fixed penalties cannot be issued to people without a UK address, so the only remedy would either be an awareness course (online) or referral to Magistrates' court?

Would be interested to hear from anyone with experience of such a set of circumstances.

Happy new year to all.









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