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Messages - Crimsmoke

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I’m a bit overwhelmed with the technical legal aspects of my PCN. My initial appeal was based on the guidance provided by forum members, and I refined it using AI. However, with more detailed legal points being raised, I’m finding it a bit difficult and confusing to wrap my head around.

CP8759, I read your PM and replied to you.

2
I got a rejection letter from TFL in line with what wax expected. I note that they mentioned 16:11, when the PCN only said 16:10. Here's a copy and paste of the rejection letter content.

Quote
Notice of Rejection

Thank you for your representation received regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

In your representation, you stated that the red route parking bay permitted parking until 16:00, and the PCN was issued at 16:10, where a 10-minute grace period is required.

We have decided to reject your representation for the following reasons:

Please be advised that your vehicle was observed from 16:09 until 16:11. The vehicle is observed stationary within the parking bay.

We issued the PCN because your vehicle was observed stationary on the date and time of contravention at the above location. The signage in place indicates "No Stopping on any day, Any Day 7am - 7pm Except 10am-4pm parking 1 hour, No return within 2 hours." Being stationary within a red route parking bay outside the permitted times of stopping constitutes a contravention.

Roads on the red route have stopping and parking restrictions in place, which can be identified by red lines, red and white bays, and road signs indicating the times when parking or stopping is allowed.

It is the responsibility of the driver to be aware of and comply with the red route restrictions as laid out in the Highway Code.

Statutory signs or road markings are in place, giving drivers adequate information regarding the red route restrictions at the above location. TfL will allow drivers a reasonable time to check the restrictions; however, the priority must be to do this.

When considering representations and appeals, we fully consider all the circumstances present, including any mitigating factors and whether it would be appropriate to apply our discretion over the enforcement of a PCN. In this instance, we have decided not to exercise that discretion, as we do not consider the mitigating factors present give reason to cancel the PCN(s) because the vehicle can be seen stationary within the parking bay outside of the permitted hours. It is clear the PCN has been correctly issued.

Transport for London (TfL) has considered your representation in accordance with the requirements of the above Act but we do not accept that you have established grounds or suitable reasons for the penalty charge to be cancelled. This letter is issued as a formal Notice of Rejection of your representation.

You should now make full payment for the outstanding PCN(s) within 28 days of the service of this Notice. The amount(s) currently due is set out below. For those PCNs held at the discounted penalty charge amount, we will provide you a further 14 days beginning with the date of this notice to pay and close the PCN at that rate. If the PCN(s) remain unpaid after this 14-day period, the penalty charge due will revert to the standard penalty charge amount as stated on the PCN.

You may appeal to an Environment and Traffic Adjudicator at London Tribunals, an independent adjudication service, against this decision on specified grounds within 28 days of the date of service of this letter. The adjudicator will consider your appeal and make an independent decision, which Transport for London will comply with. Please do not send your appeal to us, and be aware an Adjudicator can only decide an appeal on statutory grounds. Further information is available on the London Tribunals website.

If you want to appeal to an Environment and Traffic Adjudicator at London Tribunals, please ensure you read the enclosed form carefully, in particular the Appeal Procedure, and then complete, sign, and send the attached form within 28 days of the date of service of this letter to London Tribunals, PO Box 10598, Nottingham, NG6 6DR.

You should be aware that, in prescribed circumstances, the Adjudicator may award costs against you if the appeal is considered frivolous or vexatious or that the making, pursuing, or resisting of the appeal was wholly unreasonable. Equally, costs may be awarded against Transport for London if the adjudicator considers that the disputed decision was wholly unreasonable.

If you do not pay the penalty charge or submit an appeal within 28 days of the date of service of this notice of rejection, a Charge Certificate may be served. This increases the penalty charge by 50% of the original amount. If the increased Penalty Charge is not paid, then Transport for London will apply to the County Court to recover the charges, which will incur a further charge of £10 per Penalty Charge Notice.

HOW TO PAY

a) Credit/Debit card payments may be made ONLINE at tfl.gov.uk/redroutepayments
b) Credit/Debit card payments may be made by downloading the TfL Pay to Drive in London app
c) Payment can be made by POST to:
Red Routes
PO Box 335
Darlington
DL1 9PU

PLEASE DO NOT SEND CASH IN THE POST. All cheques/postal orders must be made payable to Transport for London and crossed "a/c payee." Please ensure your vehicle registration and Penalty Charge Number are written clearly on the back. Post-dated cheques will not be accepted.

PCN Number: GX20513911
Outstanding Balance: £80.00

Yours sincerely,

D. Milton
Contracts & Operations Manager

3
Ok, something else I just picked up when I've just double checked the GSV signs. I think parking sign is confusing, it says except 10am to 4pm parking allowed for 1 hour. Can this be interpreted as except for the period of 10am to 4pm, you can park for 1 hour? As normal signs will tell you when you can park.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/faTS9hURrSEtANuv6

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I wrote out something with help from ChatGPT pointing out the 10 minutes grace and De minimis approach. Can you help eyeball the letter and let me know if there's any adjustments needed? I think I may need to focus on the 11th minute argument or the de minimis approach.

Quote
I am writing to challenge the Penalty Charge Notice issued to my vehicle. The PCN was issued at 16:10 with the CCTV evidence timestamped at 16:10:15. I believe this PCN is invalid on the following grounds:

1. 10 Minute Grace Period:
The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2022 stipulates a statutory 10 minute grace period for vehicles parked in bays where parking is permitted. In this case, the parking bay allows free parking until 16:00, meaning enforcement action cannot lawfully commence until the 11th minute upon expiry of the valid pasking session.

The PCN was issued at 16:10 and even though the evidence was timestamped at 16:10:15, it falls within a trivial time window (15 seconds beyond the grace period), making enforcement overly strict and inconsistent with the intention of the law.

2. De Minimis Principle:
Even if the 15-second overrun is deemed technically outside the grace period, the de minimis principle should apply. This legal principle recognises that trivial breaches do not warrant enforcement action. The 15-second delay is negligible and does not cause any significant obstruction or contravention of parking rules. Issuing a PCN in this case is disproportionate and unreasonable.

I kindly request that this PCN be cancelled, given the circumstances. The 15-second margin is well within reasonable limits of compliance and does not undermine the purpose of parking regulations. Furthermore, enforcing such a minor infraction undermines the fairness and reasonableness expected in public enforcement.

I trust that you will consider this appeal in light of the regulations and principles outlined above.

5
Ok, so I'm wondering if there's any viable way of challenging this on TFL's enforcement procedures? Discount period is up tomorrow and will have to get this dealt with. Thanks.

6
I can't remember what time I parked but was definitely no more than 10 minutes max and I left no later than 4:15pm

7
Hi all,

I received a PCN from TfL on the 3rd December for stopping where prohibited on Commercial Street (E1) outside Spitalfields Market. The 21-day discount period is coming up on Monday, so I’m trying to figure out if there’s any point in appealing this or if I should just pay it and move on.

I’d briefly parked there to pick up an item from the shop on the corner of Lamb Street, which is in the congestion zone which I didn't want to pay (the irony in hindsight). Things have been really rough that day, so I didn’t have the headspace to process much at the time. Honestly, I can’t recall if I saw the signage, but Street View shows signs for those bays. I also noticed another car parked there, which may have influenced me giving me the confirmation bias that it was ok to park for a few minutes.

Is it worth challenging this, or should I just accept this and pay before the discount period is up?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Streetview link

PCN pictures

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