Free Traffic Legal Advice

Quote from: Homer on December 06, 2024, 09:55:22 am

Quote from: Foxy01 on December 06, 2024, 07:33:47 am

In light of the information regarding the disqualifications: These should have been reported to the TC by his employer (part of the Operator Licence obligations). Was he employed at these times? Although he has been punished the TC still has the power to revoke his vocational entitlement, his PCV licence. Was the TC ever informed? If not then it is unlikely the TC would know.
I think your son should seek some specialist advice before attending the meeting. I'll message you some details of somebody who might be able to help.

The 6 points and revocation happened since he left his previous employer but somehow the TC is aware as it was  mentioned on the letter.

Revocation applies to new drivers and is usually related to passing a car test.  Did he also obtain a PCV entitlement within those first two years or have I misread something somewhere?

So he passed his car driving licence and then sat tests for a PCV licence through his previous employer passed and began working for them then after he was dismissed for using a phone whilst driving he attained 6 points and his car licence was revoked which he then sat tests to regain his car licence after which he began working for this current employer

It is a little daft, but to be fair the parent's come for help, rather then to see his lad get bashed for it. Couldn't say I never did anything daft driving a bus. Also Roy was right, you wait for one and three come along at once. Very on point

Either way. TL:DR of the whole post

Be humble to the TC
License suspension is likely
Learn from the experience
Ensure you speak to your current employer to ensure they know what's going on as it may affect current employment
Do NOT skip the meeting

Good luck

Thank you that is most helpful advice

Quote

"if he looked at the phone but didn't touch it, that would be no different imo to looking at any other instrument."

But the offence is using the phone, not touching it. And there is a specific offence prohibiting the use of a hand-held phone whilst there isn't one prohibiting the use of (say) a speedometer.

I don't know very much about the work of the Traffic Commissioner and I assumed that any action taken by him would be following a conviction. But it seems not. From the same document this under the "Standard of Proof":

"In the vast majority of driver conduct cases, a traffic commissioner will be able to proceed on the basis of the facts following a conviction, fixed penalty, an endorsement or an admission of guilt. However, where no such findings have been made, the standard of proof required (in such civil proceedings) is the balance of probabilities, but the more serious the allegation the more cogent is the evidence required to overcome the unlikelihood of what is alleged and thus to prove it."

And this under "Double Jeopardy":

"The concept of double jeopardy is sometimes raised in relation to traffic commissioner led regulatory action taking place in parallel with criminal proceedings. However, the principle of double jeopardy does not apply. Case law clearly indicates that regulation would be turned on its head if disciplinary proceedings could only be taken in the less serious of cases, where there are no concurrent criminal proceedings. However, if a traffic commissioner decides to proceed in advance of the criminal proceedings elaborate steps may have to be taken to protect the fairness of those proceedings. Ultimately the decision whether or not to continue is one for the traffic commissioner hearing the matter."

Perhaps Roy can help is out.

As he had already been punished for the speeding on 2 occasions with a total of 6 points and fines which ultimately cost him his car licence which meant he had to resit theory and practical car tests does this mean he can no longer be punished for this? Or could this still be taken into account along with the touching/ using phone whilst driving in a PCV?

So the TC is an interesting one. Not been in front of them myself (I drove PCV and work elsewhere in the industry now) But have had to study them and learn for CPC related reasons. One thing I would say off the beat, is TC driver hearings are generally open to the public, so if you want to go with your Son to watch what goes on, you can do (unless it states it's closed doors on the day) and there's the possibly that he may not be speaking to the actual TC, but a deputy on the day. Deputy's have the same power as the TC itself mind, so that point's rather moot.


The fact your son was driving and I assume, moving at the time will make this most likely lean towards as Newjudge said, towards the 4 week period. Length of service may come into account too with the TC potentially being more harsh based on less experience. One driver I spoke to who had been in front of the TC for mobile phone use (Looking at a bus stop, doors open handbrake on) was given a ban of 5 days instead of 4 weeks due to 27 years of service with no issues, this particular issue also being a report from the company (Most companies are obliged to inform the TC of these actions as part of operator license related duties)




Not really sure of anything else truth be told, I made an account just to respond to this post

Firstly thank you for taking the time out to make an account just to respond to my post

The hearing is said to be on Microsoft Teams so not in person (not sure why) the vehicle was moving at 60mph and the offence was interacting (touching) a phone at 60mp, the looking down was what triggered the camera as it thought he was falling asleep, he also has in the past year collected 6 points on his normal drivers licence from speeding in his car on 2 separate occasions which as he had newly passed and gained a full driving licence within 2 years it was revoked, he then was not allowed to drive until he re-sat the theory and practical driving tests which he eventually did after some months and recently managed to find another job where he has been working for just a few weeks.

Yes very stupid things to do but sadly we can no longer give the kids a clip round the ear just hope that they have learnt from their mistakes and do better. He has lost a lot in terms of a well paid job and then his licence which has cost time and money so hopefully he has learnt enough lessons to not repeat them!

Thank you to all those that have given non-judgmental advice it is much appreciated.

On his lap I believe and connected by cable

My son managed to get a PCV licence and had been working for a major coach company for a few months when he was sacked for looking down at his phone on which he was playing music whilst driving which were connected to his earphones (stupid thing to do he now knows) his employer reported him at the time to the traffic commissioner this was December 2023 and now a year later he has been sent a letter advising of a hearing before the traffic commissioner in 7 days time, he needs to respond by post to a) confirm he is attending and b) if he will have representation?

He is now working for a smaller coach company and is very careful whilst driving.

He could potentially lose his license and his livelihood 😭

What can he do to ensure his licence isn't taken away and he can remain in his job? Is there a way to do this? Is it worth getting a solicitor? If so will it be expensive?

Any help would be greatly appreciated as we are now quite desperate as there's a lot on the line 🙏