Show Posts
This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
Well, basically, it is not a slam-dunk win, I'm afraid, reason being you approached the restriction signs head-on, rather than from a left or right turn. In addition, there is an advance sign. The only thing is the amount of information on the advance sign and also on the actual restriction signs. Too much to read and digest whilst driving a car, but you have to convince an adjudicator of this, and he'll probably think, if it's 20 mph, one has time to read the Times newspaper !
I challenged the 2 PCNs on the grounds that the signs were obstructed or not readable from a vehicle and also that I am penalised for the same contravention twice within 10 mins. It said 30 working days to get a response. It's now been over 40 working days. Is there a limit by when these cases timeout?
In light of the information regarding the disqualifications: These should have been reported to the TC by his employer (part of the Operator Licence obligations). Was he employed at these times? Although he has been punished the TC still has the power to revoke his vocational entitlement, his PCV licence. Was the TC ever informed? If not then it is unlikely the TC would know.
I think your son should seek some specialist advice before attending the meeting. I'll message you some details of somebody who might be able to help.
The 6 points and revocation happened since he left his previous employer but somehow the TC is aware as it was mentioned on the letter.
Revocation applies to new drivers and is usually related to passing a car test. Did he also obtain a PCV entitlement within those first two years or have I misread something somewhere?
In light of the information regarding the disqualifications: These should have been reported to the TC by his employer (part of the Operator Licence obligations). Was he employed at these times? Although he has been punished the TC still has the power to revoke his vocational entitlement, his PCV licence. Was the TC ever informed? If not then it is unlikely the TC would know.
I think your son should seek some specialist advice before attending the meeting. I'll message you some details of somebody who might be able to help.
It is a little daft, but to be fair the parent's come for help, rather then to see his lad get bashed for it. Couldn't say I never did anything daft driving a bus. Also Roy was right, you wait for one and three come along at once. Very on point
Either way. TL:DR of the whole post
Be humble to the TC
License suspension is likely
Learn from the experience
Ensure you speak to your current employer to ensure they know what's going on as it may affect current employment
Do NOT skip the meeting
Good luck
Yes, most have had to add that clause to their contracts of employment and have had to assure the tC that it has been done, as well as having a sign in the drivers cab area stating the obvious as well. The CCTV like Lytx and others can immediately pick up when it looks like the driver is holding a phone. It goes to "the cloud" and the employer is informed almost immediately.It also records the last 30 seconds of driving but writes over it unless there is an incident which triggers Lytx, when it then saves the last 3 minutes IIRC.
If there is an incident the driver can press a button in the cab to make sure the last 3 minutes is saved and it will continue recording sound as well as vision. Very helpful if there's an RTC and the errant driver get on the bus and starts having a go at the bus driver! I've found that very useful when it's happened to me a couple of times. I simply sit in the cab, press the red button, and when Mr Angry spouts off I simply inform him that everything he says is on camera and is being recorded. It can also work against the bus driver though as it has in this case.
Tell your mate not to waste money on a solictor.
Quote"if he looked at the phone but didn't touch it, that would be no different imo to looking at any other instrument."
But the offence is using the phone, not touching it. And there is a specific offence prohibiting the use of a hand-held phone whilst there isn't one prohibiting the use of (say) a speedometer.
I don't know very much about the work of the Traffic Commissioner and I assumed that any action taken by him would be following a conviction. But it seems not. From the same document this under the "Standard of Proof":
"In the vast majority of driver conduct cases, a traffic commissioner will be able to proceed on the basis of the facts following a conviction, fixed penalty, an endorsement or an admission of guilt. However, where no such findings have been made, the standard of proof required (in such civil proceedings) is the balance of probabilities, but the more serious the allegation the more cogent is the evidence required to overcome the unlikelihood of what is alleged and thus to prove it."
And this under "Double Jeopardy":
"The concept of double jeopardy is sometimes raised in relation to traffic commissioner led regulatory action taking place in parallel with criminal proceedings. However, the principle of double jeopardy does not apply. Case law clearly indicates that regulation would be turned on its head if disciplinary proceedings could only be taken in the less serious of cases, where there are no concurrent criminal proceedings. However, if a traffic commissioner decides to proceed in advance of the criminal proceedings elaborate steps may have to be taken to protect the fairness of those proceedings. Ultimately the decision whether or not to continue is one for the traffic commissioner hearing the matter."
Perhaps Roy can help is out.
Has your son really only had 7 days notice?
So the TC is an interesting one. Not been in front of them myself (I drove PCV and work elsewhere in the industry now) But have had to study them and learn for CPC related reasons. One thing I would say off the beat, is TC driver hearings are generally open to the public, so if you want to go with your Son to watch what goes on, you can do (unless it states it's closed doors on the day) and there's the possibly that he may not be speaking to the actual TC, but a deputy on the day. Deputy's have the same power as the TC itself mind, so that point's rather moot.
The fact your son was driving and I assume, moving at the time will make this most likely lean towards as Newjudge said, towards the 4 week period. Length of service may come into account too with the TC potentially being more harsh based on less experience. One driver I spoke to who had been in front of the TC for mobile phone use (Looking at a bus stop, doors open handbrake on) was given a ban of 5 days instead of 4 weeks due to 27 years of service with no issues, this particular issue also being a report from the company (Most companies are obliged to inform the TC of these actions as part of operator license related duties)
Not really sure of anything else truth be told, I made an account just to respond to this post
