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Messages - teatree04

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1
Just wanted to update you. I had my hearing in February and the adjudicator upheld my appeal. He also couldn't see any basis for the penalty charge from the council. Thank you so much to everyone who offered help, guidance and support with this. You have my gratitude, thank you!

2
I registered my appeal on 3rd October. The notice of rejection gave me 28 days to register the appeal and it was dated 5/9/25 (though I didn't receive it till a couple of days after). So it's weird that they sent the charge certificate before the deadline had expired for lodging an appeal with the London tribunal isn't it?

4
I've submitted my appeal which has now been accepted by the London Tribunal. I have a hearing scheduled for 20th February 2026 to explain my case to the adjudicator. In the meantime, Havering has written to me saying the fine has been increased.

5
Appeal IMO.

Yet again a complete failure to advise the owner of their rights to appeal:

3Where any representations are made under paragraph 1 above but the enforcing authority do not accept that a ground has been established, the notice served under sub-paragraph (7) of the said paragraph 1 (in this Schedule referred to as “the notice of rejection”) must—

(a)state that a charge certificate may be served under paragraph 5 below unless before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice of rejection—

(i)the penalty charge is paid; or

(ii)the person on whom the notice is served appeals to a traffic adjudicator against the penalty charge; and

(b)describe in general terms the form and manner in which such an appeal must be made,

and may contain such other information as the enforcing authority consider appropriate.


Misstated twice and owner's right to apply to adjudicator to register an appeal beyond the regulatory period has been omitted in its entirety.

And misstated their power to serve a Charge Certificate.

There are a few other pages including a Q&A page included with the letter. I uploaded these as well and the links are available here:

https://ibb.co/C52QK4Nj
https://ibb.co/xRvTM5W
https://ibb.co/cKvJWwbk
https://ibb.co/rRbM19vY
https://ibb.co/Rp3wXqMZ

6
Thanks for this, where is that taken from?

I'm working on an appeal. Does that mean that their failure to properly state the appeal options could mean their case gets rejected?

7
Thank you for helping to sort that out.

Is there any advice on the next steps?

8
I've now received notice that my appeal was rejected. I'm having some difficulty attaching the letter though

The use of attachments to post docs and images here is not recommended.

The easiest way to upload docs and images here (unless you have no mobile phone camera) is to use yr  phone to photo each page of each doc, redacting yr name & address where it occurs, and uploading the images to an external site like  https://ibb.co/ or imgur and copy and then post the BBCodes here. I use ibb with no probs. (Scroll down past the image to see the BBCode.)
See
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/


https://ibb.co/C52QK4Nj
https://ibb.co/xRvTM5W
https://ibb.co/cKvJWwbk
https://ibb.co/rRbM19vY
https://ibb.co/Rp3wXqMZ


9
I've now received notice that my appeal was rejected. I'm having some difficulty attaching the letter though


10
OK for me. They will reject it as normal and then you can register an appeal at London Tribunals.

Thanks for your help. I've submitted the appeal now

11
Look at your Post #33. There is an outline appeal there. Don't worry if they reject it, because Havering will not re-offer the discount, so then you'd be able to register an appeal at London Tribunals, and the matter will be looked at dispassionately there. The enormous problem with all councils responding to PCNs is that they keep the penalty money, so can never, ever, be unbiased.

Thank you for this. I've drafted something now, does this look ok?

Dear Havering Council,    

I make these formal representations against PCN:   

1. The PCN does not particularise what vehicles are restricted.
I have read the PCN, watched the video of the alleged contravention, looked through google maps and shown the video and letter to others, yet despite my best efforts, it is still not clear what the alleged offence was. Having reviewed the video, it is unclear what reason (or signage) that would have been present that would have required any reasonable driver to do a u-turn at a pedestrian crossing instead of going through a green light. I considered just paying the fine however as there is no adequate explanation of the alleged contravention, it would set a disturbing precedent and there is a likelihood that I could receive a future fine for a contravention I similarly know nothing about.    


2. There is no evidence of a sign allegedly passed or indeed any other signage such as a legend.   
The evidence provided so far has failed to show that there was a sign which gave direction against the driver’s actions. There is no evidence that such a sign;

a) does exist
b) was there on a specific night last year
c) was there legitimately

The evidence provided by the council in support of the PCN fails to demonstrate any of the above points.    

3. The PCN does not include the option to pay by post.   

Therefore, in light of the above, please cancel it.   

12
Thank you for the reply, that's the bit I'm unclear on (what has been suggested). Is it that I should appeal? If so, I've found some wording and was trying to get guidance on whether that's what I should use. Can you please help/advise?

13
Hi,

I’m in a situation with the same scenario. If anyone can help/advise I would be very grateful. I’ll try keep it brief. The first letter I received was to say I had not paid the penalty charge (same location, same offence code). New charge was now £195 up from £130. I called the number and was sent a link to view the evidence. Video and picture evidence showed nothing with regards the offence, just my van driving down the road. According to them I couldn’t appeal until a third letter was sent. When I received this I appealed stating I didn’t not receive the original letter and I haven’t been given notice on what the actual offence was. Having reading all these posts it seems the exact same. I had a judge witness my signature as it requests (what a joke and scam that is, scaring people to just pay up I suspect!). The problem was I made a mistake on the form. I entered my details as the driver, not the business which the van is registered to. They sent the form back. I then had to resend with the details of the business and not me. I then receive another letter saying I’m out of time and had to declare that. Well I wasn’t out of time replying, but I did make a mistake on the (very confusing) form. I sent the next form back (again had to be witnessed by a judge!) stating I hadn’t received the first letter and also had to sign the out of time form. They basically forced me to do this. Today I’ve now received a notice of enforcement and it’s now £280! No acknowledgement of my appeal, or the fact they never sent an initial fine letter, just the one saying it was unpaid! How is this even legal, it feels like a massive scam. Can someone please help? Thanks.
Start your own thread, please. Rule is one OP per thread. Of course you can keep looking at this one.

Also please read this before you start your thread:-
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Please can you provide some guidance on whether I should appeal using the wording above?

I'm a bit confused. Have I missed something really obvious? I thought we were meant to ask for advice/guidance in here and people might be able to help but it seems that no one is responding to my requests for help with this. Did I breach a forum rule or something?

14
Hi,

I’m in a situation with the same scenario. If anyone can help/advise I would be very grateful. I’ll try keep it brief. The first letter I received was to say I had not paid the penalty charge (same location, same offence code). New charge was now £195 up from £130. I called the number and was sent a link to view the evidence. Video and picture evidence showed nothing with regards the offence, just my van driving down the road. According to them I couldn’t appeal until a third letter was sent. When I received this I appealed stating I didn’t not receive the original letter and I haven’t been given notice on what the actual offence was. Having reading all these posts it seems the exact same. I had a judge witness my signature as it requests (what a joke and scam that is, scaring people to just pay up I suspect!). The problem was I made a mistake on the form. I entered my details as the driver, not the business which the van is registered to. They sent the form back. I then had to resend with the details of the business and not me. I then receive another letter saying I’m out of time and had to declare that. Well I wasn’t out of time replying, but I did make a mistake on the (very confusing) form. I sent the next form back (again had to be witnessed by a judge!) stating I hadn’t received the first letter and also had to sign the out of time form. They basically forced me to do this. Today I’ve now received a notice of enforcement and it’s now £280! No acknowledgement of my appeal, or the fact they never sent an initial fine letter, just the one saying it was unpaid! How is this even legal, it feels like a massive scam. Can someone please help? Thanks.
Start your own thread, please. Rule is one OP per thread. Of course you can keep looking at this one.

Also please read this before you start your thread:-
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Please can you provide some guidance on whether I should appeal using the wording above?

15
Can I use the same template suggested in the other thread?

Dear Havering

I make these formal representations against PCN              :

1. The PCN does not particularise what vehicles are restricted.

2. The PCN contains two lists of grounds, one of which wrongly includes a ground re the traffic order being invalid which, itself, invalidates the PCN.

3. There is no evidence of a sign allegedly passed or indeed any other signage such as a legend.

4. The PCN does not include the option to pay by post.

Therefore, in light of the above, please cancel it.

Yours faithfully

Name

Address

Could someone please help me?

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