Free Traffic Legal Advice

Comments anyone?

At the moment, there is nothing for you to appeal, the charge is addressed to the leasing company. When you receive a notice in your name we can advise on an appeal. They'll almost certainly mess this process up, which you can use to your advantage.

So I re-visited the site today. 

The signage to the entrance of the car park is as follows:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmDXF17mXHjEbVWY7

Directly below the above sign is this one:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vnHN1zMV3gnzXp9L7

There is additional signage as follows:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AiAsfCdFhnYtdRhv8

It is not argued that the parking is for Nandos customers.  My core argument, however is:

- given that Nandos was shut at the time I pulled up, surely the parking restrictions do not apply. 

Are these grounds sufficent to challenge and win the fine or is it not worth the fight?

Thanks in advance

The appeals process requires you to register an appeal at which stage you can submit skeleton grounds, as here.

The authority are then notified and required to submit their evidence.

At which point you may make what's known as 'further representations', in effect the substantive appeal.

You're at the first stage.

Come back when you've received confirmation that it's been registered.

Ok folks, the Tribunal Date has been set for 02/07/2025.   I've not heard anything from Southwark council since the letter from the tribunal service (dated 23/04/2025). 

What happens in the interim?   Am I supposed to do anything, lodge any further supporting information?

Register an appeal:

Grounds:
b)the recipient—

(i)never was the owner of the vehicle in question,

and,

Procedural impropriety.

Just get it done pl. Elect for personal hearing(it'll be by video or phone).

You can make 'further representations' AKA supplementary points later to support/add to those in your original reps.

Let us know when your appeal is registered pl.

To be clear on the substantive legal point, it is the COUNCIL's burden to prove and not yours to rebut that you may be considered to be the keeper for the purposes of the Traffic Management Act.

Can't wait to see their evidence which they should upload to the tribunal website at least 7 days prior to the hearing and copy separately to you!

Many thanks for your reply.  For the avoidance of doubt, I am submitting the following on the Notice of Appeal:

Section 5

• I was not the owner of the vehicle at the relevant time
  and
  There has been an procedural impropriety on the part of the Enforcement Authority

Section 6 - Details of Appeal
I will explain that "I have provided the LA with the details of the Ltd company (my employer) who are responsible for any parking fines, but the council has been uncooperative and continued to pursue me"

Is that all correct or have I missed something?

OP, for some reason I can't access the docs through the link in your first post.

Anyway, the council's letter states: 'if you do nothing..we will send you a Notice of Rejection..'

So, do nothing as regards Southwark and wait for the NOR.

This NTO is a total nonsense IMO.

As I see the key issues regarding procedure:

Your company leases a vehicle from BMW for the company's use subject to the Ts and Cs of the lease agreement between the parties, namely your company and BMW;

Within your company, this is allocated to you to drive subject to your company's terms and conditions; 

I presume that BMW arrange for servicing;

The BMW/company Ts and Cs provide for a replacement vehicle when the lease vehicle is not available;

The vehicle went in for service, pursuant to BMW's arrangements and BMW hired a vehicle from wherever pursuant to the lease agreement Ts and Cs;

Question: did you collect this vehicle when you took the lease vehicle in to the nominated garage or was it delivered to you?

In either case, what documents did you personally sign? In the alternative, what
was signed by BMW and do you have copies of either?

You received a NTO dated *** with you named as addressee. Was this your name and personal address or name and company address?

OP, over to you.

Many thanks for replying.    What you have assumed is broadly correct,

As you were unable to access the links provided originally, here a summary of everything to date together with fresh links to the relevant documents:

1.  22-11-2024
Here is the agreement I signed for the “Temporary Hire Car”.  The document states that I (my personal name) am the "authorised driver”.  It does not reference my Ltd company anywhere on the document. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w5u2YrMqf8teCP9RdzBP0mI2PnENPLn-/view?usp=sharing

Fortunately this document does make reference to “Customer Reg Number”.  I have an invoice from the leasing company which matches the registration number shown in this document.  But is that sufficient evidence to prove that the hire car was a temporary replacement for my leased car?

2.  24-11-24
The PCN is issued to the “Temporary Hire Car”.  Whilst the photos provided by Southwark show the PCN attached to the windscreen, when I returned the ticket was nowhere to be seen.  It was certainly NOT attached to the car.

3.  17-01-2025
Here's the 1st NTO issued to the company who owns the "Temporary Hire Car” which received the PCN :

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WPka0mM-JbgWGNnDnCK-S4piIVWS2v4m/view?usp=sharing

4.  07-02-2025
The NTO was reissued to me (my personal name) - I presume this is because the hire company provided my name as the “driver of the vehicle”. 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vqLfzKSPRXd28Mpd3xyBZoWRFJjBLe5n/view?usp=sharing

Whilst I acknowledge I was the driver of the vehicle, any parking fines were the responsibility of my LTD company:


5.  10-03-25
Southwark requested a copy of the “hire agreement” with my LTD company.  However I have no such document.  The only written correspondence I have is the agreement dated 22/11/2024 (see no. 1 above) which does not reference my LTD company (only reference my personal name as the driver of the vehicle)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wBN-8tUgCFLAW_cPHhS6GaXC9XolvlVi/view?usp=sharing


6.  24-03-2025
Notice of Rejection addressed to me (my personal name):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vpLVJKxFSxG17MQ9ueuogSwzie0QMJcX/view?usp=sharing

Where do I stand now?  What action should I take now?

Has a Notice to Owner been issued and received?

The NTO addressed to me (in my personal name was received in Feb 2025.   I made the representation that I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time on their website and I provided my LTD company details as the party they should be addressing the PCN to.   Southwark replied to me on 20/02/2025 requesting an hire agreement (suggesting they will not readdress the NTO without this) which I am unable to provide for the reasons explained in my previous post.   I have yet to receive the NTO in my company name. 

What should I do?

Excellent: a threat which will go against them! Stick it in the file. More than happy to deal with this one at the fifth set if necessary.

They are one of three with similar issues!  Just won one v Lambeth today.

So here's the latest update.....

On 20/02/2025 I responded to Southwark with the following response:

"I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time the contravention occurred
Reason:  This vehicle has never been owned by me.  I am not the owner of the vehicle. It is a hire car rented to XXXX Ltd, of XXXX address"

The "reason" option was a pre-populated option and could not be amended - hence I was unable to remove the "hire car rented to" part of the line.  In place of the "XXXX" above I provided the details of my Ltd company.   

On 10/03/2025 Southwark replied by email with the following letter:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qipll7lAD_8Ovrj0H7aPUwzFgnaWSITc/view?usp=sharing

I am unable to provide a hire agreement they have requested because the vehicle in question was a courtesy car provided by my BMW dealership whilst my company car went in for a recall/maintenance issue.   However by the look of it, Southwark wont change the name on the PCN unless I give them what they want.

What shall I do now?