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       A Final EntryNumerous calls & emails following the advices of the kind people on this site, I am pleased to confirm that today's conversation with staff at Debt Recovery at Manchester City Council has finally resolved the issue.The original PCN was apparently sent to the original owner of our old vehicle WT19 FFJ, who referred the matter to trader Motorpoint from whom we bought the old car several years ago, they gave Manchester City Council our old address. This information continued to be used until Newlyn decided to check the V5C. However we had obtained & sent a copy of the V5C from the Ford dealers who we had traded it in to last month, confirming the DVLA had held our new address since Dec 2022 when we moved.There were obvious failings somewhere within the vehicle registration system, - I'm not quite sure what had gone wrong between the original buyer trading it into Motor point & our purchase of it, but now it's sorted & as we no longer own the car I don't care! However this explains the long delay between issuing PCN etc. It looks like some items went to the old owner of the vehicle who then sent it on to the Motorpoint dealership, who then sent it back with (the wrong) address.Anyway - Newlyn bailiffs/debt recovery has now been cancelled, & as we never disputed the offence, we have paid the £30 original Bus Lane fine (see below), all debt recovery has been withdrawn, and the matter has been closed. (We have had all confirmation from all parties in writing).Thanks once again to all parties for advices. Much appreciated.

No other dealings with Manchester

Quote from: stamfordman on 28 Sep, 2024 15:11Call the trader and ask them to take a picture of the name and address on the logbook and email it to you. Or call DVLA and ask them what the name and exact address are. Something is wrong as in October last year Manchester will have sent the PCN and subsequent letters to this address. But you got nothing. It is possible the council made a mistake.The trader has kindly emailed me the V5C !It shows our NEW address and has done since 19 Dec 2022Without posting the front page which shows name & address (which you say not to do  ) https://imgur.com/a/IFMsqbwI attach a copy of the V5C - the date 2022 is clearly at the bottom, and I have a copy of the front page showing our NEW address So why would Manchester City Council send the original documents in October 2023 to our old address!?!?!?

Quote from: Enceladus on 28 Sep, 2024 13:31When posting documents it's only necessary to redact your own name and address. Please make sure that you leave everything else visible. Especially dates, times, reference numbers, vehicle registration, locations and the like. All as per the instruction in the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!** sticky post.Otherwise it's like getting blood from a stone.Was the Notice of Enforcement from Newlyn sent to you at your current address or was it forwarded from the old address?Anyway the deadline seems to have been the 26th September and today is the 28th. So you don't have any leeway to mess around.I'm loathe to post personal details on the web after being hacked. Anyway you have the documents etc now.Yes - the Newlyn document was sent to our NEW address - when I called to say it was the first notice I'd had & where had others been sent?, they became abusive & said we could be fined more for not notifying change of address - this is how I came to dig out the old email etc.I am on 7 days grace with Newlyn pending Manchester City Council replying to my emails (for which I've had a read-receipt!) asking them why they sent documents to my OLD address, and as we never received any of them, would they re-consider the amount due.

oops https://imgur.com/a/ZCh3usr

I'm sorry - it said to de-personalise Anyway I think I've got the hang of this document thing now - see the new attached - THIS shows the vehicle (if you want anything else let me know - sorry)I had a flash of inspiration & thought I'd check on the vehicle tax/MOT & it appears it's not been sold since we traded it in - well it still untaxed Note the date the last V5C was issued on the attached - 19th Dec 2022 (we moved house on the 16th Dec!!) So it all ties in with our change of address & the email. That last V5C should have contained our NEW address.

I'm sorry I'm struggling to load the paperwork. I've never used anything like Imgur. A friend has helped me -- please try this linkhttps://imgur.com/a/0m64aby[/img]

you sold to the motor trade - in which case they may still have the logbook with the address on as this was recent.[/quote]Sorry.I've emailed the trader to ask if they still have the car/V5C

Quote from: Incandescent on 27 Sep, 2024 18:39With bailiffs now instructed, the only avenue open to you now is to submit an Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration that you didn't receive the PCN, and explain why.Meanwhile with the amount claimed, (£170) it would be prudent to pay this now, to get bailiff action to cease. Paying the bailiff has no effect whatsoever on whether your OOT SD will succeed or not, and you then won't get a visit and £235 added to the bailiff bill.I've found forms TE7 & TE9 this morning & think I now understand: If after the 7 days grace, they still haven't made any decision, I pay the £175 (reluctantly), but submit the Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration forms, (I assume this is free to do?) & then the Traffic Enforcement Centre decide whether I get some/all of my Penalty monies back ?

Quote from: Incandescent on 28 Sep, 2024 00:12Sorry, but I find the email response from DVLA quite odd. I would not have expected something like this, because updating the V5 address on-line is by using their software, and would not involve any personal messages like this. So can you explain this email and what gave rise to it. From what I can see there is an error at their end, because I would not expect the update of a direct debit mandate to pay VED, to generate a new V5.This is the reply from the DVLA to the notification of change of our address - we moved Dec 2022 - as you can see they "offered" a new V5C, which I can only assume came (along with all the dozens of other things you get when you move house!), and was duly filed until we sold the car, & V5C went last month with the car - it wasn't questioned by the car retailers who we traded in with that it contained a wrong address so I can only assume it was OK.However I've contacted DVLA last night quoting the said email & asking 1: was a new V5C issued as promised in 2023 & on what date? & 2: was the address updated & to what? & explaining why I am asking.

Quote from: stamfordman on 27 Sep, 2024 22:20Who did you sell the car to and what is the VRM.What council is the PCN from and what is the reference on the letter.Sorry I don't see what relevance this is?

Although I cannot load the document (forgive me if I'm technologically challenged), I can confirm that I have contacted the DVLA and asked them to confirm the address on their records, and to confirm my request to change address in December 2022 was actioned, and v5c issued as promised in email of 3 January 2023.

I have read it - the upload folder is full

Attachments are not posting - it says The upload folder is full (I'm trying to post you the Notice of Enforcement - what do you want from it?)(I've copied email below)We had that much paperwork on change of address in Dec 2022 from that many companies, I can only assume DVLA did send the V5 as promised. Your summary is correct.The V5 went back when the old vehicle - involved in the incident - was sold last month. I have no copy.How could I get the address on the V5 at the time I sold it on from the DVLA?If I can prove the DVLA never updated it as promised in their email what is the procedure then? (as we have 7 days hold at the moment.....) If we have still had no response, do we pay the £175 to stop action & then post Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration that DVLA didn't update as promised & we didn't receive the PCN etc, and explain why, and are eventually proved correct, do we get the £175 back ??From: dvla.donotreply@dvla.gov.uk <dvla.donotreply@dvla.gov.uk>Sent: 03 January 2023 14:29To: Subject: RE: Changing personal details for a direct debit already set upDear Thank you for taking the time to update us with the new details. I have updated the address held on the Direct Debit mandate. You will receive a replacement V5C Registration Certificate within 10 working days. I trust this is of assistance to you. Do not reply to this email. If you wish to contact us again about this response, then please use the link below:  Best RegardsNadineDVLA Email LogoTwitter: [www.twitter.com/dvlagovuk]@dvlagovuk | Facebook: [www.facebook.com/dvlagovuk]dvlagovuk | YouTube: [www.youtube.com/dvlagov]dvlagov

Thanks for your input.Sorry , yes it is £175.The council held our old address.If the address (which they say they got from the old vehicles v5) was wrong, then it wasn't my fault, I have notified DVLA and they acknowledged my change.That's presumably where the "PCN, charge certificate and order for recovery?" were sentI assume this is like the bill, reminder and final reminder? The debt collectors are on hold following my call to them, for 7 daysIt's the city Council I need to convince that notice was wrongly served and to reduce or withdraw the fineThanks.