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Private parking tickets / Re: Smart Parking - 11 minutes
« on: September 17, 2024, 09:18:00 pm »
Yes, SMART withdrew.
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Private parking tickets / Re: Smart Parking - 11 minutes
« on: September 17, 2024, 06:31:59 pm »
Withdrawn at POPLA. Thanks everyone for your help.
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Private parking tickets / Re: Smart Parking - 11 minutes
« on: August 26, 2024, 05:49:23 pm »
Thanks all - will add to the appeal.
Regarding the signs, I think I've found something useful. This link is Street View from 12 months ago: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1861661,-2.8483573,3a,90y,173.57h,75.62t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1a3iX70tOWT8cgIftirQFw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D14.381259030664836%26panoid%3D1a3iX70tOWT8cgIftirQFw%26yaw%3D173.57219962947647!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
You can see the sign at the entrance. However, the driver in this case was turning into the site from the North/West, i.e. turning left into the site. Notice how the sign is turned away from drivers making that turn. It's clear that the sign wouldn't be visible to the driver when making the turn, considering the driver being on the offside, and especially considering the right-hand entry road as opposed to the no-entry signs. Appendix B of the BPA code of practice states:
"The sign should be placed so that it is readable by drivers
without their needing to look away from the road ahead."
Regarding the signs, I think I've found something useful. This link is Street View from 12 months ago: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1861661,-2.8483573,3a,90y,173.57h,75.62t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1a3iX70tOWT8cgIftirQFw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D14.381259030664836%26panoid%3D1a3iX70tOWT8cgIftirQFw%26yaw%3D173.57219962947647!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
You can see the sign at the entrance. However, the driver in this case was turning into the site from the North/West, i.e. turning left into the site. Notice how the sign is turned away from drivers making that turn. It's clear that the sign wouldn't be visible to the driver when making the turn, considering the driver being on the offside, and especially considering the right-hand entry road as opposed to the no-entry signs. Appendix B of the BPA code of practice states:
"The sign should be placed so that it is readable by drivers
without their needing to look away from the road ahead."
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Private parking tickets / Re: Smart Parking - 11 minutes
« on: August 26, 2024, 02:32:17 pm »
Yes the PCN is in my name as the registered keeper. I identified the driver in my appeal by her relationship to me, not by name.
Is it worth pursuing the other point about the times showing the exit/entrance to the site, not the actual "parked" time?
I can't seem to upload the pdf here, so I'll copy and paste:
I appeal this PCN on the following grounds:
1. I was not the driver
I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I have no legal obligation to name the driver at the time of the alleged offence, and I decline to do so. The PCN from Smart Parking does not contain the mandatory warning required by POFA paragraph 9(2)(f).
2. Smart Parking have not proven to me that they have the authority to issue PCNs on behalf of the landowner.
I require Smart Parking to prove they have a valid contract with the landowner that allows them to issue PCNs in their own name. I require a copy of the actual contract.
3. The driver was not aware they were entering into a contract
The driver was not aware during their brief stop (10 minutes 55 seconds) that a charge for parking was required. Google Street View from 2021 shows no signs at the entrance to the site:
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1861539,-2.8484386,3a,75y,168.37h,70.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAF1QipMtYkWF3h8d3r5XEGWBYMMXvXGzLzaityZh4E8!2e10!6s%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMtYkWF3h8d3r5XEGWBYMMXvXGzLzaityZh4E8%3Dw900-h600-k-no-pi19.063146216105935-ya233.48488623034038-ro0-fo100!7i7680!8i3840?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
I require Smart Parking to show proof that there are signs present, that are easily seen, prominent, and fully compliant with their AoS CoP.
Is it worth pursuing the other point about the times showing the exit/entrance to the site, not the actual "parked" time?
I can't seem to upload the pdf here, so I'll copy and paste:
I appeal this PCN on the following grounds:
1. I was not the driver
I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I have no legal obligation to name the driver at the time of the alleged offence, and I decline to do so. The PCN from Smart Parking does not contain the mandatory warning required by POFA paragraph 9(2)(f).
2. Smart Parking have not proven to me that they have the authority to issue PCNs on behalf of the landowner.
I require Smart Parking to prove they have a valid contract with the landowner that allows them to issue PCNs in their own name. I require a copy of the actual contract.
3. The driver was not aware they were entering into a contract
The driver was not aware during their brief stop (10 minutes 55 seconds) that a charge for parking was required. Google Street View from 2021 shows no signs at the entrance to the site:
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1861539,-2.8484386,3a,75y,168.37h,70.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAF1QipMtYkWF3h8d3r5XEGWBYMMXvXGzLzaityZh4E8!2e10!6s%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMtYkWF3h8d3r5XEGWBYMMXvXGzLzaityZh4E8%3Dw900-h600-k-no-pi19.063146216105935-ya233.48488623034038-ro0-fo100!7i7680!8i3840?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
I require Smart Parking to show proof that there are signs present, that are easily seen, prominent, and fully compliant with their AoS CoP.
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Private parking tickets / Re: Smart Parking - 11 minutes
« on: August 26, 2024, 10:59:51 am »
I did complain to the hotel and they agreed the charge was unwarranted, but the person I spoke to didn’t know anything about how the management of the car park operates. I will follow this up but I’m not holding my breath - the driver wasn’t even staying at the hotel, it was just an emergency pit stop.
This is the reverse of the notice: https://share.icloud.com/photos/03e494S7Xrt_iBty8G9mu5U3g
In the appeal I just explained the circumstances as above. I.e. the driver was driving long distance with two young children at night, had to stop as one was ill, brief stop at a passing hotel, asked the staff if they could use the facilities. Obviously didn’t notice there was a parking charge, stopped for 10 minutes and 55 seconds, grateful if you’d cancel this one, etc. I identified the driver not by name but by her relationship to me.
I’m going to do the POPLA appeal today (appeal was rejected 1st August). As I see it there are 3 avenues:
1. Can they produce a valid contract with the landowner.
2. Are the signs valid? Google street view image (https://maps.app.goo.gl/iCagLaczr96mU4ob6?g_st=ic) is 1 year old.
3. Time between ANPR photos was 10 minutes 55 seconds. Can they prove she was parked for longer than 10 minutes, rather than driving to/from a space? Looking at the google photo it seems reasonable to take 30 seconds each way to find a spot.
Any advice on how to word this for POPLA?
I’m fully prepared to go to court for this by the way and pay £250 or whatever it’ll be, simply on a point of principle. If a judge rules that a private company can decide to demand £60 from a woman driving alone at night with two children under 5, stopping for 10 minutes in an emergency, by putting up a sign she didn’t even see (reasonably under the circumstances), in an empty car park at 8pm on a Sunday, then what sort of world do we live in. In a reasonable world the proper outcome would be paying the original £1.80 charge or whatever it was.
This is the reverse of the notice: https://share.icloud.com/photos/03e494S7Xrt_iBty8G9mu5U3g
In the appeal I just explained the circumstances as above. I.e. the driver was driving long distance with two young children at night, had to stop as one was ill, brief stop at a passing hotel, asked the staff if they could use the facilities. Obviously didn’t notice there was a parking charge, stopped for 10 minutes and 55 seconds, grateful if you’d cancel this one, etc. I identified the driver not by name but by her relationship to me.
I’m going to do the POPLA appeal today (appeal was rejected 1st August). As I see it there are 3 avenues:
1. Can they produce a valid contract with the landowner.
2. Are the signs valid? Google street view image (https://maps.app.goo.gl/iCagLaczr96mU4ob6?g_st=ic) is 1 year old.
3. Time between ANPR photos was 10 minutes 55 seconds. Can they prove she was parked for longer than 10 minutes, rather than driving to/from a space? Looking at the google photo it seems reasonable to take 30 seconds each way to find a spot.
Any advice on how to word this for POPLA?
I’m fully prepared to go to court for this by the way and pay £250 or whatever it’ll be, simply on a point of principle. If a judge rules that a private company can decide to demand £60 from a woman driving alone at night with two children under 5, stopping for 10 minutes in an emergency, by putting up a sign she didn’t even see (reasonably under the circumstances), in an empty car park at 8pm on a Sunday, then what sort of world do we live in. In a reasonable world the proper outcome would be paying the original £1.80 charge or whatever it was.
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Private parking tickets / Re: Smart Parking - 11 minutes
« on: August 17, 2024, 08:48:55 pm »
Link to the photo of the “notice” https://share.icloud.com/photos/08btOSkF_xBCz2b_XMhfETJ3g
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Private parking tickets / Re: Smart Parking - 11 minutes
« on: August 17, 2024, 08:46:49 pm »
I can’t upload the google street view photo either, but here’s a link
https://maps.app.goo.gl/G2J2ZdW82ubuF5z86?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/G2J2ZdW82ubuF5z86?g_st=ic
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Private parking tickets / Re: Smart Parking - 11 minutes
« on: August 17, 2024, 06:07:28 pm »
I can’t seem to upload a photo. Will try again later.
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Private parking tickets / Smart Parking - 11 minutes
« on: August 17, 2024, 06:03:29 pm »
Received PCN from Smart Parking (attached).
I’m the registered keeper. The driver was driving long distance with two young children when one of them fell ill. The driver stopped briefly at a hotel to briefly use the facilities, after explaining to the hotel staff and asking if the children could use the toilet.
A few weeks later, I receive the notice from Smart Parking. Obviously the driver had no idea there was a charge for parking, or she would have paid it. The notice shows the time in the car park as 11 minutes.
Naively, I thought a simple explanation to Smart Parking would clear things up,thinking I’d reach a human being with common sense and decency, but obviously not. The appeal was rejected. Naively, I also identified the driver.
I’m after some advice please. Do I go to POPLAR? Just ignore?
I read something about asking them to prove they have the consent of the landowner? Another thing about the ANPR times not being valid to show the time it was actually parked - only entry/exit.
The hotel isn’t local so I have no idea what the signage was like, but the driver obviously didn’t notice them or they genuinely would have paid.
Note: there is ZERO chance of me paying this “invoice” unless a court instructs me to.
I’m the registered keeper. The driver was driving long distance with two young children when one of them fell ill. The driver stopped briefly at a hotel to briefly use the facilities, after explaining to the hotel staff and asking if the children could use the toilet.
A few weeks later, I receive the notice from Smart Parking. Obviously the driver had no idea there was a charge for parking, or she would have paid it. The notice shows the time in the car park as 11 minutes.
Naively, I thought a simple explanation to Smart Parking would clear things up,thinking I’d reach a human being with common sense and decency, but obviously not. The appeal was rejected. Naively, I also identified the driver.
I’m after some advice please. Do I go to POPLAR? Just ignore?
I read something about asking them to prove they have the consent of the landowner? Another thing about the ANPR times not being valid to show the time it was actually parked - only entry/exit.
The hotel isn’t local so I have no idea what the signage was like, but the driver obviously didn’t notice them or they genuinely would have paid.
Note: there is ZERO chance of me paying this “invoice” unless a court instructs me to.
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