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Hello both,
Thanks for the response. Extremely kind of you both to respond. This is my argument also. If I’m honest, I think the Police (Prosecution Manager who I’m conversing with) is not happy I’ve tried to evade the 3 points.

Does question your faith in the Police…

Sincere thanks again.

Quote from: Sandy217 on July 11, 2024, 09:43:51 pm

Quote from: ManxTom on July 11, 2024, 05:12:47 pm

@Sandy217  -  in your OP you said that:

"...I returned the letter the next day. I believe it was within 28 days (possibly sent on 27th day as I was intending to appeal / obtaining evidence re signage not sufficient).

I received the form I completed with my licence details from hmcts to say it has been returned to me as it was not within the prescribed time and will receive a summons in due course..."

But then on 11 June you post an update:

"... Contacted the police who confirmed receipt of driving licence details…

I will be receiving a new conditional offer which will allow me to return to the fixed penalty stage.
Will also make payment of £100 as previous amount was refunded..."

Are you saying that the police contradicted what they had previously told you and that in fact they admitted that they had received your details in time re the first COFP?

If so I don't understand why they couldn't just have said pay us the £100 again that we mistakenly refunded to you.  Issuing a second COFP seems daft and a recipe for confusion.

Have you any record of this exchange with the police?  Was it by email?  Did you record a converstaion?

Yes, the police contradicted what they said.

There is an internal email to the prosecutions manager heading 'complaint case - urgent' which was forwarded to me, in error. The contents of the email discuss me paying £100.00 payment.
No, not by email. I wanted to record the conversation, but thought it was wise not to do so, without their knowledge...

I don't think you've mentioned that before?  Does that internal email show that they actually did receive your details in time and that they cocked it all up?


Do they know you have it?  They might want to drop the prosecution out of embarrassment... 

Thanks - it simply states urgent complaint case and queries making payment. it was from Met Police, to the Fixed Penalty Team.

I'm not regulated by the SRA but I thought it was perfectly legal to record any conversation that you were a party to.  And that you didn't need to inform the other party. 

What is illegal is recording (or "bugging") a conversation you aren't a party to...

The law likes to sort issues into pigeon holes, often with the use of a large sledgehammer to overcome the natural resistance to the particular hole.

I have been in the audience when the High Court hearing a JR against refusal to state a case reconvened itself as a Divisional Court (without flinching) to determine the substantive issue.

Either way, the prosecution is (on the face of it at least) unlawful, but the court would need to satisfy itself of the fact before deciding that it cannot continue to try the information. I have it in mind that technically it is an abuse of process - which used to require an application for stay to be lodged at least 14 days before the trial date, but no longer does, but the bottom line is that the issue needs to be communicated to the court and the other party in good time, and the court needs to determine whether it would be lawful to continue the proceedings.

T

Thank you very much - I'll respond to the SJPN by the weekend

@Sandy217  -  in your OP you said that:

"...I returned the letter the next day. I believe it was within 28 days (possibly sent on 27th day as I was intending to appeal / obtaining evidence re signage not sufficient).

I received the form I completed with my licence details from hmcts to say it has been returned to me as it was not within the prescribed time and will receive a summons in due course..."

But then on 11 June you post an update:

"... Contacted the police who confirmed receipt of driving licence details…

I will be receiving a new conditional offer which will allow me to return to the fixed penalty stage.
Will also make payment of £100 as previous amount was refunded..."

Are you saying that the police contradicted what they had previously told you and that in fact they admitted that they had received your details in time re the first COFP?

If so I don't understand why they couldn't just have said pay us the £100 again that we mistakenly refunded to you.  Issuing a second COFP seems daft and a recipe for confusion.

Have you any record of this exchange with the police?  Was it by email?  Did you record a converstaion?

Yes, the police contradicted what they said.

There is an internal email to the prosecutions manager heading 'complaint case - urgent' which was forwarded to me, in error. The contents of the email discuss me paying £100.00 payment.
No, not by email. I wanted to record the conversation, but thought it was wise not to do so, without their knowledge...

What have you done in response o this latest Conditional Offer? Have you paid the £100 penalty and submitted your driving licence details?

I paid the £100.... but I did not submit the driving licence details (as I did not think they would issue proceedings during the 28 day period.. / within 6 months of the offence as I was informed the 1st COFP was cancelled)

It was issued because I did not provide my licence details within 7 days (as opposed to 28 days as per the second COFP) I was never informed it was 7 days!

"You were given 7 days to complete this due to the statutory time limit approaching..."

I believe they allowed me the opportunity to pay because I did submit my licence details on time (1st COFP)- they just failed to process it.

They should be cancelling the Notice not informing the Court to provide me with points!

Yes, I plan to respond with my chronology and quote the legislation provided to me earlier re: proceedings not being initiated against me during the 28 days period to both the Met Police and the Court.

If I still do not receive a favourable outcome i..e SJPN revoked, I will then respond to the SJPN and I think submit a not guilty plea (with my chronology attached).

Thanks so much for taking the time to read my posts and respond.

Thank you, I will have a look at this, once home this evening.