Show Posts - alextodrive

Quote from: b789 on 20 May, 2024 17:13You entered private land. There was a sign at the entrance that told you it was private land. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. If you were on private land, you were responsible, as the driver, to find and read any signs that contained the terms for parking on that private land. Whether you did or did not is irrelevant.Any defence will have to be on whether the signs complied with the rules in Civil Enforcements AOS, the BPA, CoP.Feel free to have a read and find out whether you think their signs fully comply with the requirements:BPA Approved Operator Code of PracticeIf you think there are any rules they have breached, please point them out.By remaining on the private land, beyond any "consideration period", you are deemed to have accepted the contract by conduct, whether you read the terms or not.POPLA will not consider any mitigation. They will only consider points of law and the BPA CoP. You have signs and contracts in your quiver.From British Parking - https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW%20Redesigned%20Documents/Version91.2.2024Highlight.pdfA driver who uses your private car park with your permissiondoes so under a licence or contract with you. If they parkwithout your permission this will usually be an act of trespass. Inall cases, the driver’s use of your land will be governed by yourterms and conditions, which the driver should be made awareof from the start.You must use signs to make it easy for them to find out what your terms and conditions are."Entrance signs play an important part in establishing a parking contract and deterring trespassers. Therefore, as well as the signs you must have telling drivers about the terms and conditions for parking, you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of. Entrance signsmust follow some minimum general principles and be in a standard format. The size of the sign must take into account the expected speed of vehicles approaching the car park, and it is recommended that you follow Department for Transport guidance on this. See Appendix B for an example of an entrancesign and more information about their use."----Except the issue here is quite simple. When I appealed to CE, I asked them for the photos of the signs, where they are, the sizes and the text size.All I got in their reply was a photo of one sign, that appears to be different to the entrance signs on google street view - assuming those are the same signs still up.So whether or not the signage is compliant is currently impossible for me to know. And CE failed to prove in their rejection of my appeal.

Quote from: b789 on 20 May, 2024 16:47The fact that you never left the vehicle is not a defence.On that point.Having never left the vehicle unattended, and the signage not specifically stating "no waiting, unloading" etc. It only says "guest parking only" is there a potential defence that by remaining in my vehicle waiting for a hotel guest, I havent parked there - not sure whether thats a dead end or something to consider and add to an appeal.Interest to hear all thoughts!

Quote from: b789 on 20 May, 2024 16:47"Magistrate" This is not a criminal matter. There are no magistrates involved. This is civil law. It is an argument about an alleged debt for an alleged breach of contract.Signage is a very valid point on which to appeal to POPLA. The fact that you never left the vehicle is not a defence. If you were on private land, you are expected to look for signs detailing the terms of parking on that private land.Can you obtain some photos of the car park showing the lack of signs?Ah I just assumed it was a magistrate that sits over a small claims court too. I realise its entirely civil not criminal. Either way, whoever makes the decisions at small claims / county court is who I meant.It's not close to where I live but I could go back in a week or two. Within the 28 day appeal time anyway.

Quote from: The Rookie on 20 May, 2024 14:58Quote from: alextodrive on 20 May, 2024 13:32He was staying at a nearby hotel. I've appealed to civil enforcement, explaining. I picked up a guest. That wouldn't look good if it got to court would it?As long as the signs were there to be seen and you can therefor be considered to have chosen not to read them I don't see a legal leg to stand on.CE are certainly litigious.To be clear, there is one sign. Somewhere in that car park. Which CE, couldnt themselves tell me where it is.Which given, as I stated, I didnt so much as leave my vehicle, let alone walk around the car park, nor enter the hotel, where the sign may well be next to the entrance of.I dont think it would be at all unreasonable to stand before a magistrate and say, I drove past a sign saying parking for guests only. I was picking up a guest. I didnt leave my vehicle. I have no idea where this sign was. CE dont either. They havent been able to tell me where it was on request during appeal. They dont have any footage of the car park, showing where this sign is and if I would have passed it. They havent provided the sizing of it, upon request in my appeal. So for all I or they know, or have so far demonstrated, it could be tiny and hidden in a far corner of this car park.

Hi all,hope this finds everyone well.I have been issued a parking charge notice by civil enforcement, for contravening a hotel guest car park t&c's.They have rejected my appeal.I'm now looking at whether an appeal to POPLA is worthwhile or not. Any advice very welcome!Brief circumstances11/04/2024 - I have driven to a hotel car park, to pick up a chap who was buying my car off me. He was staying at a nearby hotel. I drove into the hotel car park at 07:36. Sat in my car waiting for him to come out. He had a quick look round the car, we swapped seats and he drove the car out (with me as passenger) at 07:58.An ANPR camera has logged the car going in and out and issued me a ticket because as it has transpired the registration was meant to be input by the guest, within the hotel.I've appealed to civil enforcement, explaining. I picked up a guest. There were no signs I saw nor had an opportunity to read. I drove the car in, but did not drive the car out and it was purchased by the new owner - who was a guest. I also sent the guests booking info.Appeal rejected - Reply from civil enforcement.We refer to your recent correspondence.We have carefully reviewed your appeal and/or evidence provided taking into consideration all thepoints you have raised in relation to this Parking Charge Notice.On this occasion, your appeal has been unsuccessful for the following reason:Signs in the above car park clearly advise that guests/customers must register for a permit on thetouchscreen inside the premises. We have no record of your vehicle registration being keyed in on thetouchscreen on the day.Although you state the vehicle was not left unattended, the vehicle did not adhere to the parking termsstated on the signage.It is the responsibility of the driver to ensure they adhere to the parking terms.Please note we do not operate CCTV at this location. We use Automatic Number Plate Recognition(ANPR) cameras that record all vehicles entering and exiting the car park. The high-tech cameras arenot designed to monitor movements within the car park.Please find attached your photographic evidence as requested.Please find attached a copy of the signage erected throughout the car park advising drivers of the termsand conditions in place.It is therefore our position that the Parking Charge was validly issued because of the above detailedbreach of the terms and conditions set out on signs in the car park. You have now reached the end ofour internal appeals procedure.Next stepsI had asked for evidence of all the signs, how large they are and where they were located. Civil enforcement as above, did not provide any information on where the sign is located. How large it is. And stated they have no video evidence covering the car park. [ Guests cannot view attachments ] To my mind there is an argument here that, there was no reasonable possibility I could have seen or read this sign to accept this parking contract. Given as I had explained to them, I stayed with the vehicle and did not walk around the car park or into the hotel. Nor have they been able to evidence where this sign is located in their appeal rejection. I think the fact that the guy I picked up, who had stayed at the hotel and drove the car out, also had no idea, adds to the weight of this evidence.Any opinions from you all here? And any suggestions of the best way forwards?Many thanks, Alex. [ Guests cannot view attachments ]