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Messages - Nick325i

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1
Thank you all. I will try that

2
Thank you Hippocrates. So as far as I can see an appeal using the wording below is what i should be using and nothing further to do with the contravention?

"The PCN is missing mandatory information as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased

charge may be payable.

Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning

with the date of the notice;

Therefore, it follows that the statement: "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £240 may be payable” adds to the lack of clarity by its omission. Even on its own, whether the required information was included or not, it is also arguable that it conflates the two periods using the word "or" which many would view as being conjunctive. Furthermore, even if the statement were to be interpreted disjunctively, there is still no clarity due to the missing information. So, it follows that it cannot possibly be interpreted disjunctively."

4
Not sure if this is even worth an appeal. saw a parking spot down a road and stupidly decided to reverse down the road to park instead of driving around the block and was caught on camera. Just thought I would ask in case there is anything i can appeal on?




5
Strange one this. I paid for 45 minutes parking. At the time I did think it was cheap but checked and it was definitely 45 minutes so I didn't think anything of it. I return to the car and I have the pcn. Looking back at the app and it says 45 minutes but then below in smaller letters says the session begins from 18:22 and ends 18:37 so 15 minutes. Something went wrong there but have i got a case?

https://ibb.co/7yd5xGx
https://ibb.co/kxfRr1t
https://ibb.co/2FBXJGn
 

6
Thanks all and Merry Xmas!

7
Hi,
Thanks in advance for any help given. I was going to go straight to appeal without coming here first as it seems quite a straightforward one but best to be safe. My wife parked up, walked to the nearest sign, took the 4 digit Ringo code, paid for parking and then crossed the road to shop. Came back to a pcn issues at the same time she paid. The PCO must have been literally waiting there for her to leave the car because you can actually see her walking away in the picture. Im not sure if they are on a Christmas bonus but its disgusting.

https://ibb.co/c3rgZTW
https://ibb.co/kGwF0Hj
https://ibb.co/P4YTh10
https://ibb.co/KmBcjq0


My wife ran it through Chatgpt and came up with the following appeal, will it be sufficient?

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally appeal against the parking fine issued to me on 23rd December 2024, for parking at South Woodford, The Shrubberies. I believe the fine was issued in error, as I had paid for parking within the required timeframe.

I parked my vehicle at 4:14 PM and, after checking the parking sign, I began to process the payment via the RingGo app. I walked across the High Road to Marks and Spencer, and at 4:16 PM, I successfully completed the parking payment for a 2-hour session. I received a notification confirming the payment at 4:17 PM, as shown in the attached screenshot.

I proceeded to do my Christmas shopping at Marks and Spencer, where I completed my transaction at approximately 4:27 PM. Following that, I met a friend at Gail's for coffee, and returned to my vehicle at 6:15 PM, after which I drove off.

To my surprise, upon starting my car, my automatic wipers activated due to the rain, and a parking ticket flew across my windscreen. It was not properly attached to the car but was wedged under the wiper. I had to stop in the road to retrieve the ticket, only to find that I had been fined for not paying for parking.

I would like to clarify that I had already paid for 2 hours of parking through the RingGo app well within the legal time limits. Given that the parking warden likely issued the ticket within minutes of my departure, it seems clear that there was no violation of parking regulations.

Please find attached proof of payment, and I request that the fine be cancelled based on the evidence that I had paid for parking at the time the ticket was issued.

Thank you for considering this appeal. I look forward to your prompt response and the cancellation of this fine.

Yours faithfully,
[Your Name]

8
Just got a very quick response. Do I now just leave it to go to court?

The operator made their response on 28/11/2024 08:32:20.

The appellant has stated about the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 regarding knowing the driver of the vehicle, however, they did identify themselves as the driver and the keeper, and therefore we are still pursuing the same person. Please find attached the Notice to Keeper sent to the appellant, and the appeal from the appellant which clearly shows that the driver and the keeper are the same person, and therefore we are still compliant within the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

9
Ignore. I read again and I understand. Thanks for the help. I will try that

10
I am just going to copy out your first paragraph. I dont understand what was meant by number 2 option sorry.
The deadline for it is tonight so will get it done now.
Anyone else find it annoying that you cannot cut and paste on the IAS website?
Bet they do that on purpose!

11
Thank you HC Anderson. Excuse my ignorance, so you think I should go back to them now citing that first paragraph?

12
I appealed via the IAS and received the operators response. I now have a few days to go back. Is that now necessary and, if so, to say what?
I have already stated my claim (copied below)..

You completed the appeal on 15/11/2024 10:44:37.

The signage and parking markings are ambiguous. One of the residents informed me many people park there and pay as I did. I reversed in an on the day there was a big puddle covering the visitor sign on the floor which is quite worn. I have taken a picture and included on a drier day for you to see how the puddle forms. I reversed into the bay which makes it even harder to notice if its a visitor bay or not. The way the signage is makes it look like all of the bays are pay and display.

The fact I actually paid means there is no material loss to the operator.
The sign states "Parking bays labelled "v" or "visitor" are solely for the use of visitors whilst visiting an address of a Tait Court resident" - This language implies that these specific bars are exclusively for visitors but it does not clearly prohibit visitors from using the unmarked or general bays.

The sign states "Vehicles must have an e-permit and be parked in a bay corresponding to the permit where allocated parking exists" - However it does not clarify that every bay outside of visitor-designated bays require an e-permit, nor does it explicitly prohibit visitor parking in these bays.

While the signage mentions the requirement of an e-permit it does not specify that this applies strictly to all non visitor bays. The SCoP mandates that terms and restrictions should be clear and visible and understandable to all drivers.

Given this lack of clarity a visitor may reasonably conclude that paying for a session as instructed by a sign suffices for compliance. An e-permit being mandatory in certain areas is not clear by the signage which fails the transparency test.

Under the consumer rights of act of 2015, contractual terms must be fair and transparent.
In absence of this clear statement should be interpreted in the consumers favour. Therefore by dint of payment alone should be sufficient making the parking notice unenforceable.

I request the IAS cancels the PCN on the grounds the signage fails to clearly inform visitors of the parking restrictions and creates unenforceable ambiguity.

Response was as follows.....

The operator made their Prima Facie Case on 20/11/2024 10:39:03.

The operator reported that...
The appellant was the driver.
The appellant was the keeper.
The operator is seeking keeper liability in accordance with PoFA..
ANPR/CCTV was used.
The Notice to Keeper was sent on 23/10/2024.
A response was received from the Notice to Keeper.
The ticket was issued on 17/10/2024.
The Notice to Keeper (ANPR) was sent in accordance with PoFA.
The charge is based in Contract.

The operator made the following comments...
The land on which this vehicle was parked is private land, where Terms and Conditions apply. The Terms and Conditions are communicated to the motorist by way of prominent signage located throughout the site. All signage, as well as the overall site, has been independently audited and approved by our Accredited Trade Association (ATA), the International Parking Community (IPC). The signage states “Vehicles must have an e-permit and be parked in a bay corresponding to the permit where allocated parking exists”, going on to state that “Breach of any contractual terms and conditions will result in the driver being liable for a Parking Charge of £100”. And “By entering or remaining on this private land you agree to abide by all the contractual terms”.

Whilst we understand the nature of the appeal, the signage makes clear that all vehicles within this bay must be registered to a valid e-permit. The appellant has stated and provided evidence of the visitor parking payment, however, as per the Pay4Bay sign, it clearly states ‘this bay' which indicates that this is only for the bay that the sign is within, not the bay the vehicle was parked within. Therefore, the appellant didn't have a valid permit for the bay they were parked in, in accordance with the signage on site. While we note the appellant's comments, it remains the responsibility of the driver to ensure that they are parked in accordance with the advertised Terms and Conditions. A reasonable consideration period is provided to all motorists to allow sufficient time to read and consider the contractual terms. Should a motorist choose to reject this opportunity however, by entering or remaining on this private land without reading the Terms and Conditions, then they are deemed to have accepted them immediately.

The vehicle was observed from 09:45:08, with the Parking Charge being issued at 11:11:00. This constitutes a parking period of 1 hour, 25 minutes and 52 seconds; during which time the vehicle was observed remaining on-site whilst not registered to a valid e-permit. As the vehicle remained parked on-site after ample opportunity to consider the contractual terms had been provided, the driver has fully accepted the Terms and Conditions. Should the driver have wished to reject the contractual terms, they were required to immediately remove the vehicle from site.

As we have demonstrated that the vehicle was parked in breach of the advertised Terms and conditions, after the driver had accepted these terms; we contend that this Parking Charge has been issued correctly.

13
You have a less than 5% chance of winning an IAS appeal. It's up to you if you want to try. Your points should be on signage/markings.

The markings on the ground are worn and not very clear and the fact that you reversed into the bay means that it was difficult to notice you were not in a visitor bay. You paid for the parking session and there was no material loss to the operator.

Here are some points you could use. Remember that mitigation is not considered. Only points of law and the Code of Practice (CoP).

1. Ambiguity in Visitor Parking Terms
The sign indicates, “Parking bays labelled with a ‘V’ or ‘Visitor’ are solely for the use of visitors whilst visiting an address of a Tait Court resident.” This language implies that these specific bays are exclusively for visitors, but it does not clearly prohibit visitors from using other unmarked or general bays.

Under the Single Code of Practice (SCoP) section 3.1.3(i), signage must be unambiguous and leave no room for alternative interpretations. This ambiguity creates uncertainty, as a visitor might reasonably believe they can park in any unlabelled bay, especially since the sign does not explicitly state that visitors are restricted only to the “V” bays.

2. Lack of Clear Restriction for Non-Visitor Bays
The sign states, “Vehicles must have an e-permit and be parked in a bay corresponding to the permit where allocated parking exists.” However, it does not clarify that every bay outside of visitor-designated bays requires an e-permit, nor does it explicitly prohibit visitor parking in these bays.

This creates further ambiguity, as there is no clear indication that visitors are not permitted to park in other bays. Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, unclear or ambiguous terms must be interpreted in favour of the consumer (in this case, the visitor), meaning that visitors should not be penalised based on unclear terms.

3. Insufficient Clarity on Permit Requirements
While the signage mentions the requirement of an e-permit, it does not specify that this applies strictly to all non-visitor bays. The SCoP mandates that terms and restrictions must be clearly visible and understandable to drivers.

Given this lack of clarity, a visitor might reasonably conclude that paying for a session (as instructed by the sign) suffices for compliance. The signage does not make it clear that even with paid parking, an e-permit is mandatory in certain areas, which fails the transparency test.

The SCoP requires operators to display signage that adequately informs the driver of all terms and conditions. The lack of a clear, unequivocal statement about visitor restrictions in non-visitor bays or a mandatory e-permit in non-visitor bays means the signage does not meet the necessary standard of clarity.

4. Consumer Rights Act 2015 and Single Code of Practice Compliance
Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, contractual terms must be fair and transparent. The ambiguous e-permit requirement fails this standard, as it does not clearly indicate whether visitors are required to obtain an e-permit in addition to paying for parking.

In the absence of a clear statement, the terms should be interpreted in the consumer’s favour. Therefore, the visitor’s reasonable interpretation that payment alone was sufficient should be upheld, making the parking charge notice unenforceable.

In your appeal, conclude that:

• The signage is ambiguous and does not clearly state that visitors are restricted only to “V” bays.

• The requirement for an e-permit in non-visitor bays is not made clear to a reasonable visitor, creating confusion about where visitors are allowed to park.

• Given these ambiguities, the terms of the purported contract are not enforceable under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and the signage does not meet the IPC Code of Practice's requirements for clarity and transparency.

• If the e-permit requirement is a recent addition, SCoP Section 3.4 requires additional notice of this material change. Request that the IAS require the operator to evidence when the terms were last updated to include the e-permit system.

• Request that the IAS cancels the PCN on the grounds that the signage fails to clearly inform visitors of the parking restrictions and creates an unenforceable ambiguity.

Very helpful. Thank you

14
OK thank you. I guess I will just hold fire and fight it. Done it before and been successful. I took photos and sent but the more I look at them the more I cant believe I missed the fact it said visitor below. Apparently a lot of people make the same mistake but its silly really so I am not sure I will have much of a case in court.

Should I now appeal to the IAS?

Is there anything specific I should include?

15
So I sent an appeal close to midnight last night and just after 8.30am this morning I received a rejection (see attached) https://ibb.co/1705ZJL

Clearly my appeal wasn't even look at and this rejection is generic. At least make it look real!

Appeal was as follows,

I am writing to formally appeal the parking charge notice issued to me on [date of parking] at [location of parking area]. I appreciate your attention in considering the circumstances I outline below.

On the day in question, I parked in the designated parking area and, with full intention to comply with parking requirements, made a payment through Pay4Bay to cover the duration of my stay. I completed the payment in good faith, assuming that I had parked in an eligible visitor’s space as there was no clear indication to the contrary.

Unfortunately, I now understand that I inadvertently parked in a private bay adjacent to the visitor bay area. However, I believe this mistake was due to ambiguous signage, as the private and visitor bays are directly next to each other, and, on the day the visitor sign was under a puddle of water. I spoke with a local resident who told me it is common for people to get confused there. Given the close proximity of these bays, I did not see any distinct sign that would have indicated that my selected space was restricted.

In light of these circumstances, I respectfully request that this charge be reviewed and canceled, as my actions were taken in good faith, and I paid the appropriate fee for my stay. I am attaching a copy of my payment confirmation as evidence of my intent to adhere to the parking requirements.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to your understanding and a favorable outcome to this appeal.

Sincerely,

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