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Messages - Rightbak

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1
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: December 15, 2024, 04:19:33 pm »
Hi

Thanks for your reply. I will await the LoC and advise further.

In the meantime, here is the POPLA response. I have tried to break it up as best as possible to make it readable...

When assessing an appeal POPLA considers if the parking operator has issued the parking charge notice correctly and if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park. The Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 is a law that allows parking operators to transfer the liability to the registered keeper in the event that the driver or hirer is not identified. Parking operators have to follow certain rules including warning the registered keeper that they will be liable if the parking operator is not provided with the name and address of the driver. In this case, the PCN in question has the necessary information and the parking operator has therefore successfully transferred the liability onto the registered keeper. The parking operator has transferred liability to the registered keeper so they are not holding the driver liable. The PCN also invites the registered keeper to name the driver to transfer liability and if no driver details are provided, they will hold the registered keeper liable for the charge. It also advised that if no driver is identified they have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from the keeper. I am satisfied that it invites the keeper to pay the charge if no driver is identified.

The British Parking Association (BPA) has a Code of Practice which set the standards its parking operators need to comply with. Section 19.3 of the Code says parking operators need to have signs that clearly set out the terms. In this case the parking operator’s evidence shows the signs state “…2 hour max stay between 10am – 11pm…NO PARKING OUTSIDE OF THESE TIMES…Failure to comply with the terms & conditions will result in a Parking Charge of:£100…”. The signs clearly inform motorists of the terms of parking at the site, and offers a contract to motorists using the site, if they overstay the maximum stay time or park at the site when no parking is allowed the motorists is accepting a PCN will be issued to them. I am satisfied that the terms and conditions are fair under The Consumer Right Acts 2015 as the terms are made clear to motorists and it is the motorist’s choice if they choose to park there and accept the terms that are on offer.

The driver of the vehicle does not need to have read the terms and conditions of the contract to accept it. There is only the requirement that the driver is afforded the opportunity to read and understand the terms and conditions of the contract before accepting it. It is the driver’s responsibility to seek out the terms and conditions, and ensure they understand them, before agreeing to the contract and parking.

Section 19.2 of the Code says parking operators need to have entrance signs that make it clear a motorist is entering onto private land. In this case the parking operator’s evidence shows there is an entrance sign to inform motorists they are entering private land and terms and conditions apply. The site map provided by the parking operator shows there are 6 signs installed at the site informing motorists of the terms and conditions of using the site. There is sufficient signage installed at the site based on the size off it.

While I appreciate there are no images of the appellants vehicle parked near a sign, there is no requirement for the parking operator to provide these as their evidence shows signs are installed throughout the site.

Section 19.4 of the Code of Practice states that if parking operators intend to use the keeper liability provisions in Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, the signs must give adequate notice of the charge. The signs have the PCN amount in large white text on a black background, I am satisfied that the PCN amount is adequately brought to motorists’ attention.

Section 7.1 of the BPA Code of Practice outlines that parking operators must have written authorisation from the landowner or their agent, to manage the land in question. This can come in the form of a witness statement under Section 23.16B of the BPA Code of Practice or a full contract. In this case the parking operator has provided as signed contract from March 2021 which is valid for 36 months. The contract does say it renews automatically unless either party terminates the contract. I am satisfied the parking operator has a valid landowner contract.

The parking operator uses Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras at the site to record how long each vehicle stays on the site for and the time they entered. As the parking operator has shown that the appellants vehicle entered the site at 09:12, 48 minutes before parking is allowed at the site, and left at 10:08 the PCN has been issued by the parking operator the vehicle was parked at the site for 38 minutes when no parking was allowed. Whilst I note the appellant has raised comments to POPLA after reviewing the operator’s case file, the comments expand on the initial grounds raised and I have addressed those within my report. Therefore, the comments do not require any further consideration.

After considering the evidence from both parties, the appellants vehicle was parked at the site when no parking was allowed without being authorised to do so and therefore the driver did not comply with the terms and conditions of the site. As such, I am satisfied the parking charge has been issued correctly and I must refuse the appeal.

2
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: December 15, 2024, 12:48:24 pm »
Just a quick update on this.

The POPLA appeal was unsuccessful. I can add their response here if its important but otherwise I won't (note POPLA did say that the contract automatically renews, I could not find this in the contract myself)

I understand that any debt collection letters can be ignored.

What should I be looking out for that cannot be ignored?

Thanks!

3
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: October 07, 2024, 09:52:41 am »
Dear b789 and DWMB2

Thank you so much once again for your continued help and support on this case. I am so grateful for your contributions.

I have now submitted the response to the operator summary and await the outcome.

As an aside, I did also just note that the contract states that the parking time limit is a 2 hour max stay between 11am and 11pm. This differs from all the signage at the site that state the 2 hour max stay is between 10am and 11pm. I am unsure if this difference between the contract and signage renders the PCN unenforceable however.

Thanks once again 

4
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: October 06, 2024, 10:48:09 pm »
A couple of key points to expand on about the contract in your reply:

  • The contract is dated 23 March 2021. The 'Initial Term' is for 36 months, beginning on the 'Service Commencement Date' - the contract doesn't state when this is. Assuming it is 36 months from the date the contract is signed (a reasonable assumption in lieu of any evidence to the contrary), the contract they have provided expired on 22 March 2024, before the parking event in question. They have therefore not demonstrated that they had a valid contract in force on the date the parking event took place
  • They have provided a poor quality copy of the document - so poor in fact that it is impossible to read some of the terms
  • Whole sections are redacted - some of the redacted sections, including the Termination clause, for example, might contain details relevant to the case.

I'd make the biggest deal about the first of these points personally.

Thank you very much for highlighting the issues with the contract!



I have drafted a response as follows:

Re: Parking Charge Notice Issued by Parking Eye
Appellant: [name]

I am writing in response to Parking Eye case summary submitted to POPLA regarding the above parking charge notice (PCN). The operator has failed to address all the issues raised in my appeal. I request that POPLA consider the following points in support of my appeal and dismiss the PCN.

1. The Notice to Keeper (NtK) fails to comply with Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of PoFA 2012.

In my appeal, I emphasised that the Notice to Keeper (NtK) issued by ParkingEye does not comply with the stringent requirements outlined in Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012. This provision requires that the NtK "invite the keeper" to either pay the unpaid parking charge or provide the driver's details. Specifically, the notice must contain the word "invite" or a similar expression that clearly indicates the keeper is being requested or encouraged to take action.

As previously noted, the NtK omits the word "invite" or any appropriate synonym, representing a clear breach of the statutory requirements under PoFA. Given ParkingEye's failure to comply with Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) and their inability to provide contrary evidence in their case summary, the registered keeper cannot be held liable for the parking charge.


2. The signage was insufficient and unclear, and there is no evidence of the vehicle's location in relation to the signs.

The case summary provided by ParkingEye lacks evidence identifying the precise location where the vehicle was parked. Consequently, it is unclear how the vehicle's position relates to any signage between the parking space and the KFC entrance. Specifically, it remains uncertain whether the vehicle passed by Sign Type 1, Sign Type 2, both, or neither. As a result, the parking charge was not communicated in a clear and transparent manner, as required by law.


3. The operator has not shown that the individual being pursued is the driver.

Since ParkingEye has not fully complied with the strict conditions laid out in PoFA to hold the keeper liable, ParkingEye are put to strict proof that the person they are pursuing is the driver. Unless ParkingEye can provide unequivocal evidence that I was the driver at the time, or demonstrate full compliance with PoFA (which they have not), they cannot lawfully hold me liable for this charge.


4. No contract could be formed due to prohibitive signage.

The argument presented in my appeal is that no valid contract could be formed for parking because the signage at the car park was prohibitive rather than an offer of terms. The sign specifies a 2-hour maximum stay between 10:00 am and 11:00 pm, and since the vehicle was parked before 10:00 am, no offer to park was available. For a contract to exist, there must be a clear offer and acceptance, which is not possible when parking is prohibited before 10:00 am.

Furthermore, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA) supports this position. Under Section 62, contract terms must be fair, and prohibitive signage that penalizes parking outside allowed hours creates an unfair imbalance. Section 68 of the CRA also requires transparency, which the signage fails to meet, as it does not clearly communicate parking restrictions in a way a reasonable consumer would understand.

In summary, ParkingEye cannot enforce a parking charge because:
    1. No contract was formed before 10:00 am.
    2. The signage was prohibitive, not offering parking terms before 10:00 am.
    3. The terms are unfair and lack transparency under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.


5. No evidence of landholder authority.

I would like to draw attention to several critical aspects of the contract that warrant further elaboration:

Contract Duration and Expiration: The contract in question is dated 23 March 2021, and it specifies an 'Initial Term' of 36 months, commencing on the 'Service Commencement Date.' However, the contract does not indicate what this commencement date is. For the sake of argument, if we assume that the service commencement date is the same as the signing date, then the contract would logically be considered valid until 22 March 2024. Given that the parking event occurred after this expiration date, ParkingEye has failed to demonstrate that a valid contract was in effect at the time of the incident.

Quality of the Document Provided: The copy of the contract submitted is of notably poor quality, rendering many of the terms unreadable. This lack of clarity raises significant concerns about the enforceability of the contract, as key provisions may be obscured, hindering a complete understanding of the agreement's terms and conditions.

Redacted Sections: Additionally, there are extensive redactions throughout the document, including critical sections such as the Termination clause. The information that has been withheld could contain essential details relevant to this case, potentially impacting the determination of liability. Without access to this information, it is challenging to assess the implications of the contract fully.

In light of these points, it is evident that ParkingEye has not adequately substantiated their claim regarding the validity of the contract at the time of the parking event.



Conclusion:

For the reasons outlined above and in my initial appeal, the PCN has been issued incorrectly and I request that POPLA uphold my appeal and cancel the parking charge.

6
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: October 06, 2024, 09:16:57 pm »
As a lay person I would say PE still failed to provide sufficient evidence in all five points raised

1. The Notice to Keeper (NtK) still fails to comply with Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of PoFA 2012.
2. PE did not provide evidence of the vehicles exact parking location, therefore cannot say with certainty the signage was sufficient and clear.
3. The operator has still not shown that the individual being pursued is the driver.
4. No contract could be formed due to prohibitive signage.
5. The evidence of landowner authority was redacted and illegible and therefore cannot be used.

I will draft some better words and post them here for review. Thank you


7
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: October 06, 2024, 09:00:48 pm »
Do you have any better quality images of the contract they've provided? The small print is illegible in your uploads.

The original word document sent to me containing the contract was very poor quality but was marginally better quality than after I converted it to jpg and uploaded to imgur.
I can upload the original word doc if there is a way to do that?

8
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: October 06, 2024, 08:07:21 pm »
Hello all

PE have now submitted their operator case summary, which I have attached (two links below)

I have the opportunity to provide comments on the summary; however, due to my absence away on holiday over the past week, I now only have until 7th October to submit any feedback.

I would appreciate any advice on whether further comments are necessary.

Thank you in advance.

https://imgur.com/a/2Y4YnNm

https://imgur.com/a/ykNPcVF


9
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: September 26, 2024, 01:13:43 pm »
Thank you so much for taking the time to draft the reply above. I have now submitted my appeal to POPLA and will wait for their reply.

I would like to sincerely thank everyone who has taken the time to view and respond to this post so far, especially b789 and DWMB2. Your help and support are truly appreciated, and I am so grateful for your contributions.

10
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: September 26, 2024, 07:20:42 am »
There's never any harm challenging them to produce a valid contract with the landholder - there's an example of how to do that here: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=71287628&postcount=2343

Quote
I noticed that the PCN has the location as 'KFC Portsmouth, North Harbour'. I have searched further through the forum and believe this is insufficiently accurate
PoFA requires that they 'specify' the land - Unless there is more than one KFC at Portsmouth's North Harbour then this is likely to be a difficult sell.

Hi

Do you mean this one?

"No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

As this operator does not have proprietary interest in the land then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner.

The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights, and of course all enforcement dates/times/days, and the boundary of the site - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do, and when/where.

It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is authorised on the material date, to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only).

Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules. A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement.

Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic but crucial information such as the site boundary and any bays where enforcement applies/does not apply. Not forgetting evidence of the only restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge, as well as the date that the parking contract began, and when it runs to, or whether it runs in perpetuity, and of course, who the signatories are: name/job title/employer company, and whether they are authorised by the landowner to sign a binding legal agreement.

Paragraph 7 of the BPA CoP defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

a the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined

b any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation

c any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement

d who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs

e the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement"


And just to confirm, add this as another point to my appeal?

Thanks

11
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: September 25, 2024, 11:19:56 pm »
Just to add, I noticed that the PCN has the location as 'KFC Portsmouth, North Harbour'. I have searched further through the forum and believe this is insufficiently accurate i.e. it does not specify the address or postcode.

12
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: September 23, 2024, 09:55:26 pm »
You may wish to share a draft before submission.

Also, don't expect POPLA to accept your appeal - not necessarily because it is without merit, but because POPLA rarely go for the 'forbidding signage' argument.

I have drafted my appeal before submission as follows (basically a cut and paste of prior posts, plus some further explanation)


I would be very grateful for any further pointers before submitting to POPLA. Thanks :)


"I am appealing as the KEEPER of vehicle registered xxxxxxx.
I believe that this ticket has been issued unfairly and wish to contest it based on the following two legal principles concerning contract formation.


Ground 1 - PoFA 9(2)(e)(i) failures


Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of PoFA 2012


This paragraph mandates that for a parking operator to hold the vehicle's registered keeper liable for a parking charge, the Notice to Keeper (NtK) must include:


An "Invitation to Pay": The notice must explicitly invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges.


Exact Wording: The wording must clearly convey this invitation and mere implication or indirect suggestions are insufficient. The act requires strict compliance, meaning that any failure to fully incorporate this invitation renders the notice non-compliant with the requirements of PoFA 2012.


Non-Compliance Issue: The NtK fails to include a clear "invitation to pay", or any synonym of the word "invitation", this omission is a breach of Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i). Even if the notice suggests that payment is required, without an explicit invitation directed towards the keeper to settle the charge, the notice does not meet the exacting requirements of PoFA 2012.


Significance of Full Compliance


Strict Liability: The law mandates full and exact compliance with the specified wording and content outlined in PoFA 2012.


Partial or even Substantial Compliance Insufficient: Even if the notice largely complies with other requirements, the absence of a clear invitation to the keeper to pay is a significant flaw. The operator cannot rely on partial or even substantial compliance — every element as specified in the legislation must be present and correct.


Consequences for the Operator


Challenge Basis: If the notice is found to lack this crucial element, it can be used as a basis to challenge the parking charge.


Keeper Liability: The operator cannot transfer liability to the keeper.


Conclusion


In summary, the PCN does not include an explicit "invitation" for the keeper to pay the charge and therefore is not fully compliant with Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of PoFA 2012. Since the law demands strict adherence, any omission, even if minor, invalidates the notice and relieves the keeper of any obligation to pay.



Ground 2 – Parking was forbidden during the times the vehicle was parked, thus no contract was formed as no consideration was offered by Parking Eye (the sign isn’t making a genuine offer to park for £100 when the store is closed)


For a contract to be formed, there must be a valid offer and acceptance, as well as consideration.


In this case, no contract can be formed when parking is explicitly prohibited during certain hours or under certain conditions.


Where parking is forbidden, there is no genuine offer being made to park the vehicle.


Consequently, without an offer, there can be no consideration, as the driver is not receiving any benefit for which they would be expected to give something in return.


By issuing this parking charge, it implies that a contract has been formed between the driver and the parking operator.
However, as parking was not permitted at the time, no such contract could exist.


When parking is prohibited, the mere presence of signage indicating restricted parking cannot be deemed an offer to contract, and therefore, any such charge is unenforceable due to the absence of mutual agreement and consideration.


There are legal precedents that touch on the idea that no contract is formed when parking is forbidden during certain hours, or when there is no genuine offer of consideration. One key point is the absence of an offer and no consideration when parking is prohibited or when certain conditions, such as a store being closed, are in place.


Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest [2000] EWCA Civ 106: In this case, the Court of Appeal ruled that a motorist cannot be deemed to have agreed to the terms of a parking contract if they were unaware of the terms. If parking is prohibited, then the motorist is not accepting an offer but rather breaching a restriction, and no contract is formed.


Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] 2 QB 163: In this case, Lord Denning held that an offer must be clear and capable of being accepted by the driver. If no clear offer is made, no contract is formed. When parking is expressly prohibited during certain hours or in specific circumstances, no valid offer can be made, thus preventing a contract from being formed.


ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67: This is the leading case on parking charges, but it also reinforces the point that contracts in these situations are formed based on an offer of parking. However, if parking is not permitted at certain times (such as when a store is closed or outside designated hours), no valid offer is made, and no contract can be said to exist. The judgment implies that for a charge to be enforceable, a valid offer and acceptance must be in place, meaning the signage must constitute a genuine offer.


Conclusion
Parking was prohibited during the times the vehicle was parked, thus no contract was formed as no consideration was offered by Parking Eye. Hence the PCN is unenforceable due to the absence of mutual agreement and consideration.



I kindly request that you review both grounds I am contesting the PCN against."

13
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: September 18, 2024, 02:42:30 pm »
Yes, there are legal precedents that touch on the idea that no contract is formed when parking is forbidden during certain hours, or when there is no genuine offer of consideration. One key point is the absence of an offer and no consideration when parking is prohibited or when certain conditions, such as a store being closed, are in place.

Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest [2000] EWCA Civ 106: In this case, the Court of Appeal ruled that a motorist cannot be deemed to have agreed to the terms of a parking contract if they were unaware of the terms. If parking is prohibited, then the motorist is not accepting an offer but rather breaching a restriction, and no contract is formed.

Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] 2 QB 163: In this case, Lord Denning held that an offer must be clear and capable of being accepted by the driver. If no clear offer is made, no contract is formed. When parking is expressly prohibited during certain hours or in specific circumstances, no valid offer can be made, thus preventing a contract from being formed.

ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67: This is the leading case on parking charges, but it also reinforces the point that contracts in these situations are formed based on an offer of parking. However, if parking is not permitted at certain times (such as when a store is closed or outside designated hours), no valid offer is made, and no contract can be said to exist. The judgment implies that for a charge to be enforceable, a valid offer and acceptance must be in place, meaning the signage must constitute a genuine offer.

If the signage suggests a punitive charge rather than an offer to park, especially during times when parking is not allowed (such as when the store is closed), then the argument can be made that no contract was formed due to the lack of consideration and the absence of a valid offer.

Thank you so much for your continued help with this appeal, it is very much appreciated. I will therefore submit my appeal to POPLA essentially using your wording/links and also the update you posted previously as supporting evidence.

I'll update again should this go further.

Thanks!

14
Private parking tickets / Re: Parkingeye PCN KFC Portsmouth North Harbour
« on: September 18, 2024, 12:19:42 pm »
I would like to provide an update on my situation.

Unfortunately, my appeal to ParkingEye was unsuccessful. I am now preparing to escalate the matter to POPLA and am currently compiling my case.

Based on previous discussions, I understand there are two primary arguments for my defense:

1) The notice does not comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to hold the registered keeper liable for the charge. Specifically, it fails to "invite" the keeper to pay the charge, as stipulated under paragraph 9(2)(e)(i) of the Act. I plan to use the well-worded section kindly provided by b789 above.

2) Additionally, an argument could be made that as parking was forbidden during the times the vehicle was parked, no contract was formed, as no consideration was offered by ParkingEye (the sign isn't making a genuine offer to park for £100 when the store is closed).

For point 2, is there any template or standardised wording I should use? Alternatively, are there any relevant court cases where this argument has been successfully tested that I should reference?

Thank you

15
Appeals are routinely rejected. But when they do reject, you then have a shot at POPLA. It's also often considered a reasonable thing to do - if someone writes to you demanding money, and you don't believe you owe it to them, it's generally considered reasonable to tell them as such and explain why.

Yes, point taken thanks. Should the Parking Eye appeal be rejected then I will appeal to POPLA as suggested. If I may I will post my appeal on here before sending in, just to make sure I have the points down correctly.

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