Free Traffic Legal Advice

Just for additional information.  litigationteam@moorsidelegal.co.uk seems to be active.  It at least gave an automated acknowledgement of receipt when tested at the end of this year while the help address still returns the automatic not monitored response.

Good news in the post:



Thanks again for the guidance.

Until next time.

So reps are due by midnight on the 12th.  Here's what I have drafted and appreciate it still may be a bit long:

Dear Milton Keynes Council

On the 5th of November, I drove into Milton Keynes and parked near the EasyHotel just off Silbury Road where I was staying overnight as marked with the blue star in the attachment “MK Parking locations”.  This would have been the first time I had ever visited the city.

Later on the morning of the 6th I moved and parked my vehicle at the Witan Gate East location given in the PCN as I needed to take some bulky items to the Leonardo hotel for acting rehearsals as Santa Claus.  I genuinely thought I had paid by phone via Ringo for a new parking session in a different location.  Not familiar with MK city centre, I did not realise Witan Gate East and the EasyHotel location in fact shared the same location code (even though they are hundreds of metres apart) for pay by phone and that my Ringo session had not actually gone through, presumably as I was trying to book the session from a start time that overlapped into the end of my 5th November parking session.

I tried multiple times to pay for the 6th November parking session.  With mounting frustration, I took a screenshot of the session I had tried to book at 10:33am to cover the prior time I had intended to pay for, before any CEO issued ticket, attached in the file “Ringo 6th November Attempt”.  Upon the transaction/payment screen once again freezing, I gave up and returned to the car park to pay at a machine about 60-65m from my vehicle.  There was a queue of 3 people before me, one of whom was slow to purchase a ticket.  I finally managed to get a ticket at 10:49, 8 minutes after the PCN time, for 6 hours of parking to cover the rest of the day.

I would be grateful if you exercised discretion, given the good faith shown in persistently trying to obtain a ticket via pay by phone and then getting a physical ticket when that repeatedly failed.

As an aside, their online representation portal seems to not list any statutory grounds, I'm guessing not worth adding a point about that at this stage?

Small update

Informal reps were submitted, albeit outside the discount window.  Rejection unsurprisingly received.  They've seemed to have missed the wood for the trees but expected at this stage.  Awaiting NTO.

Reps were submitted as follows:

Dear Milton Keynes Council

On the evening of the 5th November I arrived and parked near the EasyHotel just off Silbury Road in Milton Keynes city centre and promptly paid by phone to cover parking into the morning of the 6th prior to me departing the hotel.  The location I parked is marked in the attachment “MK parking locations” with the light blue star.  This is the first time I have visited the city.  I have evidence of my hotel booking for that evening also attached.

Later on the morning of the 6th I parked in the Witan Gate East location near Genesis House as I needed to take items to the Leonardo hotel where I would be taking part in acting rehearsals for Christmas themed events as Santa Claus.  This is marked in the attachment “MK parking locations”.

When parking at the Witan Gate East location I walked toward the Leonardo Hotel and tried numerous times to pay by phone with Ringo as I had done the prior evening when I parked near the EasyHotel just off Silbury Road.  Given the distance between the two parking locations (250m or so), I did not realise that the location code for both of those areas was the same on the signs.

After a number of failed attempts to pay by phone where the transaction would freeze I gave up and returned to the pay and display machine on Witan Gate East, approximately 60-65metres from where my vehicle was parked.  There were three people queuing before me to purchase a pay and display ticket, one of whom was particularly slow.  I did however finally manage to pay for a ticket which I have attached with these representations, timestamped at 10:49 to cover 6 hours of parking, 8 minutes after the PCN issued by your CEO.  I didn’t notice a CEO around my vehicle at the time I tried to pay and seems I might have missed them by only a couple of minutes or so.  Had I seen them, I would have approached them and mentioned my issues and that I was in the process of getting a physical ticket.

It seems I was also caught out by the fact that Witan Gate East and the parking near the EasyHotel shared the same location code, which is typically unusual for other towns and cities, where even opposite sides of the road can have different codes.  This unfortunately meant I was not aware that I technically had a parking session that already applied for Witan Gate East and as such would have an even shorter amount of grace period in which to pay for time.

I would be grateful if you exercised discretion, given the good faith shown in trying to obtain a ticket via pay by phone and then getting a physical ticket when that failed.

The gap in time of merely 8 minutes between the issuance of the PCN and the purchase of the physical ticket to cover a 6 hour parking session also strikes me as being a de minimis or trivial contravention.

I hope with the information above, you can find grounds to cancel the PCN in this instance.


Their rejection:

Are you sure he didn't pay for a shorter session that expired.

This is the session he repeatedly tried to pay for without success.



I'll double check with him but I'm confident no shorter session was paid for.

I also did some digging and MK council give the following insight regarding PCNs:




I also note in the second screenshot they stipulate 5 minutes grace to pay for a ticket and worryingly gives reasons they will not cancel a PCN which strikes me as pre-empting fettering of discretion.

I'll come back and 100% confirm no prior sessions/shorter sessions etc were ever bought.

I'd argue their specific request regarding the V5C is not necessary and they are being pathetically vindictive and/or just demonstrating the routine incompetence these companies show.

If the V5C is a must, what happens to people who find out about a PCN years after the event where the car has since been sold/transferred/scrapped and the V5C is no longer in your possession?  What happens to those who were never the RK such as lessees, hirers, courtesy cars etc.

Probs best to recite ICO guidance to them as they are clearly a bit thick.  Your DL with name and matching address is more than adequate to ID you as the valid subject.  The V5C has no further benefit but as above, it depends on whether you wish to be pragmatic to get the info or can wait it out.

Update: Hearing is 7th August

@cp8759

Would it be possible to have a copy of the full FOI letter for the camera make/model you received from the council please?

Feel free to redact personal info etc.

Thanks

Hi John

I haven't selected a date yet.  If I choose one sufficiently far into the future can I still upload evidence/documents after making the hearing selection?  The TPT website gave me the impression that once a hearing type and date was selected, no more evidence/documents such as a skeleton argument etc would be able to be added and the hearing selection needs to be made before this Friday the 12th.

I'll post appeal summary this evening although when looking through their evidence I don't think I saw a summary by them, just the PCNs, NORs, TRO, VCA certificate etc.  Will double check.

Thanks