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Messages - volavola

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: May 28, 2024, 10:43:02 am »
Just a quick update, I've given North Essex Parking Partnership a call this morning just to highlight to them their error of missing the time and date stamp -  prior to submitting for tribunal.

After realising the error and subsequently speaking with a manager, they have cancelled the PCN.

I will also put in a complaint about how this was handled prior to this.

Many thanks to everyone who helped

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: May 26, 2024, 09:37:05 am »
Quote from: nigelbb on May 26, 2024, 06:36:31 am
Surely the evidence from the CEO confirms that the car had moved? They have noted front as 11 on first observation then 12 on second observation.

I guess they're putting that down to "it's close enough".

Honestly, I'm pretty shocked it's got the stage it has, there has been incompetency the entire way through, with now 3 different individuals involved:

- CEO either hasn't been trained that there is no zonal restriction and the three sets of bays have different TRO's, or he forgot that the car was in a different location before and the tyre valves were "close enough" to decide it hadn't moved.

- They failed to even view the video at informal appeal.

- They failed to see a time/date stamp in the formal appeal, despite it being clearly displayed in the bottom left of the video.

It's simply a waste of time, effort and money. Not just for me, but for the local tax payers, over something that should never have got this far. Very frustrated with it all.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: May 25, 2024, 02:24:54 pm »
NoR Part 2

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: May 25, 2024, 02:24:19 pm »
NoR attached, and yes reply was at per post 17.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: May 25, 2024, 02:02:41 pm »
So finally had a reply from them. They have rejected it based on the video not having a time or date stamp, and as you can quite clearly see it does in the YouTube video, which is a direct copy of the reupload they watched.

Off to tribunal I reckon then...

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: May 07, 2024, 02:32:10 pm »
Just wondering what's the average time to respond to a formal appeal or if there's a time limit at all? It's been 35 days or so at this point and the video still have zero views.

Many Thanks

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: April 03, 2024, 11:33:36 am »
Quote from: cp8759 on April 01, 2024, 01:25:10 am
@volavola your formal representation looks fine to me. The one thing I'd suggest is that you re-upload the video and send them the newly created youtube link, and don't open the link yourself and do not post it on here.

If by the time you get the notice of rejection the view count is still zero, you can then prove conclusively that they've failed to consider it.

Thank you, I've done this so the view count is 0 and made sure not to click the link myself.

Will keep you updated when I get a response, many thanks.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: March 28, 2024, 09:20:41 am »
Thanks for the reply H C.

Yes, I did submit the video with the challenge. The video was unlisted, and had 9 views at the time I sent it to them. When I received a reply from the informal appeal, it still had 9 views - so I know they didn't view the YouTube link.

I didn't want to outright accuse the CEO of lying, however I would say it's pretty unlikely that he/she initially marked the valve positions and is also unaware that the St.John's 2 hour parking bays aren't seperate; or maybe just trying it on!

If/when the PCN gets revoked, I will still send an email to the parking partnership and copy in anyone else that could flag the issue. My partner wanted to pay it due to the hassle, but for me it's more the principle given their initial response to the informal challenge - as  well as the time and money wasted on both sides!

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: March 27, 2024, 09:07:30 am »
Quote from: cp8759 on February 13, 2024, 12:05:44 am
@volavola if you let us know once you've got the NTO I will draft a formal representation for you.

@cp8759

I have drafted quickly the below, if you could let me know if I've been to nice or how to change some of the content that would be great.

- Arrived at 11:50 and parked at St John’s Green, outside St Giles Conference Centre.
- Returned to vehicle at 13:45 and moved approx. 250m to other bays, St John’s Green (central Section) as shown in the YouTube video.
- Returned to the vehicle at 15:30 to find PCN.

I do not believe this PCN should apply as the car wasn’t parked for more than 2 hours in either of these distinct bays. As set out in the TRO under Schedule No.44 (Page 205), the locations at St John’s Green are defined under different headings and are therefore separate locations; there is no zonal restriction in place.

In your previous rejection, you state that the CEO noted the tyre valve positions were the same at the first and second observation and therefore the vehicle did not move. I provide a copy of the car dashcam footage, uploaded to YouTube, which is time and date stamped to show it did.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: March 22, 2024, 04:23:51 pm »
Other page

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: March 22, 2024, 04:23:13 pm »
Hello,

Thanks all for the replies.

NTO arrived yesterday and is attached.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: February 13, 2024, 01:52:36 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on February 13, 2024, 12:05:44 am
Quote from: Incandescent on February 08, 2024, 12:11:27 am
Looks like some mendacity on the part of the CEO re tyre valve positions ! However it does look as if they treat all the separate bays that come under St John's Green as one area for parking, with identical restrictions, so moving from one bay to another does not trump the 2 hour limit.
That's not how it works, if they want to create a "no return to the zone" restriction they need signs to indicate that. The signs do not create a zone restriction so even if the traffic order supports what the council is doing, the signs are inadequate.

IMO if this case is argued properly at the tribunal, it's hard to see how you could lose.

Long story short: Incandescent is wrong and H C Andersen is right on this occasion.

@volavola if you let us know once you've got the NTO I will draft a formal representation for you.

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply and your offer of the draft for formal representation, much appreciated. I'll update once we get the NTO.

One other thing, should the location on the PCN be identical to the TRO, or is that just academic? For example the PCN says St.John's Green, but the name for the bay on the TRO is St.John's Green (central Section)?

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: February 11, 2024, 02:51:34 pm »
Quote from: mrmustard on February 11, 2024, 09:17:47 am
Please post an image of the  bay sign, it must give clear information

Hi, thanks for your reply. Here's the picture of the sign from the bay where the ticket was issued, it's identical on the one at the first set of bays also.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: February 11, 2024, 02:49:36 pm »
Quote from: H C Andersen on February 10, 2024, 09:16:27 pm

if it counts as one single area anyway?

And where did you get this idea?

Apologies, I misread your reply. I thought the first line was you saying that the contravention was made out.

Also previous the reply from Incandescent who said they treat all bays at St Johns Green as one area. So has led to a bit of confusion on my part as to which is correct.

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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: PCN - Moved location, and footage - Informal challenge refused - Valve Position (North Essex Parking Partnership)
« on: February 10, 2024, 06:00:24 pm »
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.

I understand what you are saying in terms of a reply at the formal stage, and this was the information I put in the informal appeal.

Proving the car moved is quite easy with the video footage, however if they then do agree that it has moved is it not that we've then admitted to overstaying as St John's Green and the PCN would still need to be paid - if it counts as one single area anyway?

Do we have any kind of chance of winning this, or is it just a better bet to pay at the discounted rate?

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