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Messages - DWMB2

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1
Private parking tickets / Re: luton airport parking charge
« on: August 20, 2026, 11:58:15 pm »
The Notice to Hirer will fail to comply with 14(6) and 13(1)
I would argue there is no 14(6) and 13(1) to comply with. Schedule 4 of PoFA does not apply at all where the vehicle is not parked on "relevant land". If the entire schedule is inapplicable then any conditions that would otherwise exist under it are irrelevant.

I say this not to be a pedant, but because of this:
the argument about “relevant land” under 13(1) is usually sufficient to get APCOA to cancel.
When it gets to the OP appealing, I'd lead solely with this, so as not to introduce unnecessary complexity.

2
Private parking tickets / Re: luton airport parking charge
« on: August 20, 2026, 03:57:08 pm »
I am responsible for[/b] "either paying the fine/penalty amount or appealing upon receipt from the authority".", thats in the email I received from Arval with the aforementioned charge notice.
But you haven't received anything from "the authority", you've received a letter from your leasing company, in which they include a copy of a parking charge notice addressed to them.

As it is addressed to them, it is for them to respond to, the notice even tells them that:


You need to contact Arval and make sure they have indeed provided your name and address as the hirer of the vehicle, at which point APCOA should write to you directly.

3
Let us know how you get on. It will be good if they've given up their nonsense arguments about the byelaws and started accepting appeals again.

Your case has also reminded me to chase up my complaint, which has been open an unreasonably long time...

4
Are you the registered keeper of the van? If so, the below is relevant.

As Newquay Airport is subject to byelaws, it is subject to "statutory control", and as such, not relevant land for the purposes of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act, meaning they cannot hold the keeper liable. You could therefore appeal along the lines of the below. If you are not the registered keeper (if it's a lease vehicle, for example), let us know as the approach will be slightly different.

Dear Sirs,

I have received your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ______) for vehicle registration mark _______, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. I am appealing as the registered keeper of the vehicle. There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not be doing so. I note from your correspondence that you are not seeking to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act").

Even if you were seeking to do so, as Newquay Airport is not "relevant land" as defined by The Act you are unable to recover the charge from me, the keeper.

I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter, and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code.

Yours,

Make sure this appeal is made solely as the keeper, do not reveal who was driving.

For a while Initial Parking used to claim the byelaws were just a 'draft' and hadn't been enacted, then for a while claimed they didn't exist at all. I have an open complaint with the British Parking Association about this. The wording of your PCN doesn't falsely claim that the Protection of Freedoms Act applies, which suggests the complaint may have worked... That said, if they do reject your appeal, I can support with a POPLA appeal.

If they do not know the driver they cannot send a Notice to Keeper because they have no legal powers to do so, only the airport owners can, not the private company.
This isn't quite right. They can't use the provisions of PoFA to recover charges from the registered keeper - they're perfectly entitled to write to the keeper in relation to the unpaid charge, they just can't rely on PoFA, nor claim an ability to do so (which they aren't). As for the airport owners, they can't issue a private parking charge and use PoFA to hold the keeper liable either, the rules around relevant land don't change based on who's seeking to recover the charge. They could seek to prosecute for a breach of byelaws, if applicable, but they won't.

5
The signage you have showed us is from a different parking company - it would be wise to visit the location in person to see what signage is there now.


6
Weirdly, having not really seen any such similar cases that I can recall, this is the second such example within 2 days: APCOA LHR T5 Short Stay Penalty - Meet & Greet

As above, once we've seen all the relevant documents (including your appeal and their response) we'll be better placed to advice.

Another point, which sounds like pedantry but isn't, you refer to 'we' throughout. From a legal perspective there is no 'we'. Your vehicle is registered to one individual. It is that person alone who is being pursued, and all correspondence, up to and including any court action, must be done by them/in their name.

The creditor may not pursue the keeper if at any stage prior to legal proceedings being commenced they are made aware of the driver's name and details for service.
Correct.

7
Private parking tickets / Re: My appeal to APCOA, please take a look
« on: August 19, 2026, 01:42:01 pm »
I'd be amazed if they added your vehicle to any sort of whitelist. APCOA have been hired by Heathrow to enforce parking/drop off - the drop off charges almost certainly go to the airport, with APCOA retaining PCN income. If they put your vehicle on a 'whitelist', they would potentially be breaching the terms of their contract with Heathrow by allowing drivers of a particular vehicle to be exempt from the charges Heathrow have put in place.

At face value (leaving aside arguments around signage etc.) the driver enters into a contract, and flowing from that ends up owing money to APCOA. Whilst they can't rely on PoFA to hold you liable, they can send you PCNs in the hope that you pay up or dob in the driver. If the driver(s) of your vehicle don't pay the drop off charges, the consequence is PCNs that you will have to appeal each time.

Based on DVLA data, APCOA issue about 6,200 PCNs every day, yours will be a drop in the ocean.

8
It will be hard for anyone to offer meaningful advice as to your chances of success, when you have told us nothing about the grounds upon which you relied in the first place, nor the evidence you presented to make your case for exceptional hardship.

9
Private parking tickets / Re: Parking charge notice euro car park
« on: August 19, 2026, 09:30:16 am »
Please act on the previous reply by reading the linked "Read this first" thread and providing the required information.

10
No, I didn't say who the driver was. The appeal was sent solely as a keeper.
Good - in that case, if APCOA reject, I'd be minded to appeal on the grounds of PoFA and relevant land. This stands you in good stead for getting the charge cancelled with the least amount of fuss.

I assume APCOA would fairly assume the driver who exited is the same one as who entered.
As I was getting at above, it likely doesn't matter to APCOA if the driver who exited is different. Their position could reasonably be that the driver who entered the car park entered the contract with APCOA - in entering that contract, he agreed to ensure that the correct tariff was paid before the car left and that the car left within X minutes of payment being made. The fact that he passed responsibility for leaving the car park to someone else wouldn't matter.

In a similar way that if you order an item from a retailer online, and they pass responsibility for delivery to a courier who then loses your item, your recourse is against the retailer, not the courier.

11
Did you say who was driving (when entering the car park) in your appeal to APCOA, or was the appeal done solely as the keeper? If the latter, we can probably get this cancelled at POPLA stage regardless of any arguments around the Meet & Greet driver's late departure from the car park.

However it pans out, APCOA have always been a pretty benign company, and so far we've never seen them take a case to court.

It's quite an interesting one this - at face value, the contract with APCOA would appear to be between them and the driver who entered the car park, accepting the contract by entering and parking up. That they delegated responsibility for leaving the car park to someone else (namely the M&G company via their driver) would seem to be irrelevant to this. On that basis, they arguably wouldn't be wrong to reject the appeal. If money was found to be owed to APCOA, you'd then be trying to recover this from the M&G company, presumably (depending on the terms of the contract with them) arguing that their negligence has caused you loss. But, as above, there's a fair chance we won't need to get into an argument as complex as that.

12
Appeal made to APCOA (we all know how likely this is to succeed)
For future reference for airport tickets, had you come here before appealing, we could have advised you of an appeal that would have had a close to 100% chance of succeeding, but we cannot change the past.

Please show us the PCN you have received, and exactly what you submitted as an appeal.

I'm unfamiliar with the Meet & Greet at Heathrow, so I'm not entirely sure what has happened here - it seems unusual that you also have to pay for short-term parking when you are using the Meet & Greet car park? Is this a third party company providing the Meet & Greet service that is not associated with the airport?

13
Something along the same lines should do - amended to address any new/different points (I note your previous response included a request to update their address for service. If they're now using the correct one this can be removed).

I'd also be tempted to add in a line noting that you have already received and responded to a previous Letter of Claim in respect of this incident. I would mention the correspondence you sent as per reply #19 in this thread (assuming you sent it and received no response?) - I would point out that you did not receive a response to this, and you do not believe it is reasonable conduct on the part of the prospective claimant to ignore your correspondence for 15 months, before issuing an almost identical Letter of Claim that does not address any of the queries you have already raised.

Feel free to show us a draft before sending.

14
Can you show us the actual document?

15
Welcome to FTLA.

To help us provide the best advice, please read the following thread carefully and provide as much of the information it asks for as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide

Quote
by law I shouldn’t need to display a blue badge on private car parks 
By which law? On private land, the owners of the land can impose whatever requirements they like.

They do have to make "reasonable adjustments" for disabled people under the Equality Act, although whether a reasonable adjustment for someone with autism is allowing them to park closer to the gym than others might be a stretch.

The good news is that DCB Legal very often back down when a claim is defended. Show us the relevant documents as detailed in the link above and we can advise.

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