3. YBJ H&F
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YBJ H&F
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Good afternoon,
We have just received this for a YBJ and the option to pay at a lower fee has already past  :( , (postman shortages in our area currently) we have also just paid another 2 fines for the broomhouse lane non resident area toll for the same day, having used to be a resident years ago we were unaware of these also, to the current fine for the YBJ we drove both our cars in as my mum was taken ill and got hit with the broomhouse lane fines unknowingly. then after the Dr gave her the all clear we decides to try and get her some food and this is when we got caught in the YBJ for around 10 seconds, would have been ok if the car in front had of moved forward but the back was still in the box, do you think we have any grounds here at all. one very expensive visit to Hammersmith and Fulham. I have attached a copy as you can see it is now at £160.

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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #1 on: »
Box doesn't look compliant for the current layout as extends too far but presumably the road to the left is blocked off.

« Last Edit: July 23, 2025, 04:19:30 pm by stamfordman »
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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #2 on: »
Just to check, your car is the one half in and half out the box junction? Not the one that stops fully in the box junction behind it and then moves into the vacant left hand lane at the end of the video?
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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: MrChips on July 23, 2025, 04:23:40 pm
Just to check, your car is the one half in and half out the box junction? Not the one that stops fully in the box junction behind it and then moves into the vacant left hand lane at the end of the video?
Yes that's correct it was assumed that the car would clear the box in time but it is a long car  :(
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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #4 on: »
Thanks. Initial reaction same as stamfordman. Would be a gamble to rely on but you've nothing to lose at this stage as discount has gone. H&F may reoffer though assuming they reject your representations.

I used to live two streets away in Biscay Road and there was no box junction there when I moved away in 2010!

Edit: according to GSV my memory can't be relied upon! It was there back then - perhaps it was just not enforced.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2025, 04:53:41 pm by MrChips »
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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #5 on: »
Thanks for your help, is there a way to find out if the box is compliant before I appeal, We do visit once a week but I don't fancy standing on Fulham palace road with a tape measure :) Also is there a draft for appeal on the site?
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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: MrChips on July 23, 2025, 04:23:40 pm
Just to check, your car is the one half in and half out the box junction? Not the one that stops fully in the box junction behind it and then moves into the vacant left hand lane at the end of the video?
Yes the road to the left is currently closed off due to building works.
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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #7 on: »
My thoughts:

The location of the contravention is given as:

Box junction Fulham Palace Road j/w St. Dunstan's Road.

A 'box junction' as defined may be placed without the need for a traffic management order however, its design, siting and extent are circumscribed by regulations which in this case provide:

"box junction” means an area of the carriageway where the marking has been placed and which is—

(a)at a junction between two or more roads;

Paragraph 11(6)(a) of Part 7 of Schedule 9 to the Traffic Signs etc. Regulations 2016 refers.

The enclosed GSV aerial view shows that the yellow markings extend 30ft beyond the north-west kerbline of St. Dunstan's, this is not 'at the junction' of Fulham Palace Road.

Even if one considered the road junction to include the radiused kerb then the markings still extend 16ft beyond this point.

The council'se evidence shows that the rear of my car was stationary some 4 feet inside the markings.

My analysis of the applicable regulations in the context of the location given in the PCN shows that this point was not at the junction of those roads but well outside.

The contravention therefore did not occur and the PCN must be cancelled.
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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #8 on: »
There's nothing to measure, it's subjective.

Legally, a “box junction” means an area of the carriageway where the yellow marking has been placed and which is at a junction between two or more roads.

You would need to successfully argue where you stopped is outside the junction with the road on the right, and also that there is no longer a junction with the road on the left as it is closed.

Some adjudicators allow the council a lot of leeway, others are more sympathetic to you.

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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #9 on: »
There's everything to measure  ;D
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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #10 on: »
Fair enough ;)
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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #11 on: »
Thanks for your input guys it is appreciated, I will submit my letter of appeal based on the above that you have supplied and let you know the outcome Fingers crossed.
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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #12 on: »
You might be better served getting someone here to draft it. Or at least post your draft up here for fine tuning.
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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: MrChips on July 23, 2025, 07:50:08 pm
You might be better served getting someone here to draft it. Or at least post your draft up here for fine tuning.

+1
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Re: YBJ H&F
« Reply #14 on: »
Would someone on here with more experience mind drafting a copy up please?
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