3. Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
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Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
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Hello all,

I am looking for advice please. I visited the Lake District at the weekend (near Ullswater) and went to a local National Trust. The car park was completely full so I had to find alternative parking nearby further up the road. I found a lay-by where cars were already parked and there was space for one more car. There were double yellow lines on the actual road/carriageway, but they did not extend into the lay-by itself. This led me to believe there was no parking on the road but parking in the lay-by would be fine.
However, I came back from our walk to find the yellow PCN sticker on the windshield. All other cars had vacated by that time so I couldn’t tell if anyone else got one or not.

I really think that this lay-by is a bit of a “trap” and very misleading as there were no indications within the layby that parking was restricted. I took the yellow lines on the road side to mean that parking on the carriageway was not permitted and didn’t extend this thinking to the actual off-road area.

Maybe there is nothing I can do, I’m not very good with this sort of thing. That’s why I’ve come here for advice. If there are any standard appeal letters that suit my case I’d really appreciate if someone could share that.

Thanks
Chris

P.S.
I have included the PCN (front and back) and a picture of the cars position and the markings on the road. Note there are no markings/signs in the lay-by.

Here is a google street view link to the location:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/2jHVXZSUXhDCntNMA?g_st=ic
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Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #1 on: »
Tried to upload PCN and image of street but having no luck.

Perhaps you can see my post and images here:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=150434
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Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: Chris-001 on June 26, 2023, 01:53:33 pm
Tried to upload PCN and image of street but having no luck.
Please read this https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/ for help on how to post images. We'll need the PCN without redactions please.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #3 on: »
Just to add, this is our first PCN from this authority, so I'll make a request for the council templated responses, policy documents and the traffic order all in one go.

While we wait for that to come back, here's a couple of relevant decisions:

Alan Jones v Warwickshire County Council (ZQ00003-1801, 26 February 2018)
David Hale v Devon County Council (YD00023-2104, 20 May 2021)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2023, 02:10:42 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #4 on: »
I hope this works:

https://imgur.com/a/BBHDest
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Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: Chris-001 on June 26, 2023, 07:03:22 pm
I hope this works:

https://imgur.com/a/BBHDest
Yes it does. The last date to preserve the discount is 8 July, so let's give it a few days just in case the TRO comes back. In the meantime draft an informal representation and put it on here for us to review, and we'll tidy it up for you.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #6 on: »
I really have no idea where to start with that? Would you by any chance have a template or an example I could use to start with please?
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Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: Chris-001 on June 26, 2023, 10:01:05 pm
I really have no idea where to start with that? Would you by any chance have a template or an example I could use to start with please?
Some councils return traffic orders really quickly, so let's give them a chance. If you've not heard anything in a week, drop me a PM to remind me and I'll draft a representation for you.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #8 on: »
Oh that’s awesome thank you!!
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Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #9 on: »
Hello

It’s been a week and just wondered if you’ve had anything back yet? If not could you help me draft the informal challenge?

Thanks
Chris
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Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #10 on: »
Draft representation, this is really only to buy time while we wait for the traffic order:

Dear Westmorland and Furness Council,

I challenge liability for PCN VK20119134 on the grounds that the alleged contravention did not occur. I parked in what appeared to be a lay-by, and normally when parking restrictions apply to a lay-by one finds the yellow lines along the edge of the layby rather than along the carriageway. I would suggest the layout in this instance is liable to cause confusion, and for that reason I invite you to cancel the penalty charge notice.

Yours faithfully

You can hold off sending this until Saturday just in case we get something back before then, the EIR response from the council is not actually due back until 24 July but they might respond mid-week. As long as you put something in by Saturday night, they have committed themselves to re-offering the discount so they cannot now resile from that.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #11 on: »
Ok thanks, no problem I’ll wait until Saturday and I’ll message you before submitting it.
Thank you for putting that together though.
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Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #12 on: »
Have you had a response from the council yet?

I've since been able to get hold of The County of Cumbria (Various Roads, District of Eden) (Consolidation and Provision of Traffic Regulations) Order 2022.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #13 on: »
Hey,
No reply yet.
I don’t know how long these things normally take, or how they will get back to me?

Is the form you’ve attached something I could do with looking at? If so could you please direct me to which part?
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Re: Ullswater, code 01 parked in a restricted street, A5091, Lay-by
« Reply #14 on: »
It cam tale them several weeks to respond. I wouldn't bother looking at the traffic order until you hear back, but if you want to get a heard start what you want to do is find the part of the traffic order that relates to the exact spot where you parked. If the road markings don't match the order, that opens another avenue of appeal.

I mostly posted the traffic order so that we have it to hand later on should we need it.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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