Author Topic: is my pcn valid?  (Read 310 times)

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cp8759

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2024, 11:21:01 am »
If that is all they have sent, you have a slam-dunk win based on the notice of rejection being defective. However I would suggest we wait for the postal copy to arrive next week, just to be 100% sure.

Please bump the thread if you haven't received the postal copy by this time next week.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

MMV Redux

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2024, 11:36:16 am »
+1

OP---I would continue with this.

Once again we have a moving camera car because they can't be bothered to stop and issue a PCN. Adjudicators don't like this and I would argue the camera car should be static when videos are taken.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2013/360/schedule/made  where it states:-

2.  The device must include a recording system in which—

(a)recordings are made automatically of the output from the camera or cameras surveying the vehicle and the place where a contravention is occurring;

(b)there is used a secure and reliable recording method that records at a minimum rate of 5 frames per second;

(c)each frame of all captured images is timed (in hours, minutes and seconds), dated and sequentially numbered automatically by means of a visual counter; and

(d)where the device does not occupy a fixed location, it records the location from which it is being operated.

Mike

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2024, 01:35:05 pm »
hi all, ive had nothing else regarding the pcn. would someone be able to let me know how to appeal it based on what they have sent so far. the first appeal was denied.

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2024, 03:11:29 pm »
hiya can anyone help me with the appeal. i havent had anything in the post. just the email i attached. i would like to appeal it, if anyone can help me thanks

Incandescent

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2024, 10:49:35 pm »
The place where you appeal the PCN is the Traffic Penalty Tribunal (TPT).

https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/

As they have formally refused your representations against a postal PCN, you can register an appeal now. From what I've read on the thread so far, you have a very strong case.

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2024, 09:05:18 am »
thanks, yes thats what i want to do, but i dont know what im suppose to be saying to appeal it, can someone help me?

MMV Redux

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2024, 10:09:13 am »
OP-- I'll draft you something today if possible.

Mike

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2024, 10:30:21 am »
thankyou so much mike

MMV Redux

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2024, 01:09:59 pm »
OP---did you get the NOR by post?  If so it is essential that we see it entirely.

The Council should have given you details of adjudication and sent you a PIN Code.

So the question now, for others, is how to get access to TPT or whether to send the appeal below back to the Council.

I would convert the appeal to pdf if its sent.

Name
Address
VRM:-CU56SXP

APPEAL AGAINST PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE-- NO. PT21541165

The Charge

Contravention 23 - Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle

Circumstances

My vehicle made an emergency stop at this location because my two children, who have learning difficulties, were biting their cochlear implants which cost a significant amount of money.  The vehicle showed a Blue Badge which would not have been picked up by your passing camera car. Likewise the camera car would not have seen me in the back of the vehicle dealing with the situation.

Appeal

The major impetus of this appeal is that the Enforcement Authority have “achieved” several procedural improprieties, each of which renders the penalty charge invalid and makes the contravention given untenable.

1) The PCN is defective in that the Contravention Code 23 stated does not have a suffix.

How the recipient of such a notice is supposed to understand what vehicle is allowed in that bay is beyond me.

In this regard I would offer case  MC49426047 ---- Mr Robert Piatt - v - Manchester City Council in which the adjudicator stated:-

“I therefore find that the contravention code used was deficient in that the suffix was not used. If the suffix had been used together with the words “goods vehicle loading bays” it would have been more clear to the driver what he had done wrong. I therefore agree with Mr Piatt that there was a procedural impropriety“.

2) The PCN is defective in that a parking place was never created by the TMO

Where the alleged parking contravention occurred the lines and signs denote a no stopping prohibition; the TMO never created a parking place so the contravention given is untenable. In this regard I would offer the following case--- 2230157501 Rafael Mendez v London Borough of Lambeth:-

“On examination of the Traffic Management Order (TMO) produced by the
Authority, I find that it does not create a designated parking place”

3) Increased penalty statement is incorrect and fetters the Council’s discretion

The PCN states that the penalty charge will be increased by 50% and steps will be taken to enforce payment. This relates to the charge certificate stage where the legislation notes:-

20.—(1) Where a notice to owner is served on any person and the penalty charge to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the authority serving the notice may serve on that person a statement (a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in question is increased by the amount of the applicable surcharge.

This will/may  issue is important as in the following case:-  AW00056-1811  Claire Jones - v - Cheshire West and Chester Council where the adjudicator remarked:-

“In my view there is an important distinction between the words “may” and “will”. The wording set out in the Regulations shows that the issue of a Charge Certificate is discretionary. Use of the word “will” in the Notice of Rejection suggests that the issue of an increased charge is automatic. In my view this is misleading. I am therefore allowing the appeal on the grounds of procedural impropriety“

4) The Notice of Rejection (NOR) is Defective

My Regulation 10 PCN also acts as a Notice to Owner as per 20(4)(a) The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (General Provisions) (Wales) Regulations 2013.

Under the Appeal Regs the NOR should therefore enclose details as follows particularly an appeal to an adjudicator:-

Rejection of representations against notice to owner

6.—(1) Where representations are made under regulation 4 and the enforcement authority serves a notice of rejection under regulation 5(2)(b), that notice must—

(a)state that a charge certificate may be served unless within the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice of rejection—

(i)the penalty charge is paid; or

(ii)the person on whom the notice is served appeals to an adjudicator against the penalty charge;

(b)indicate the nature of an adjudicator’s power to award costs; and

(c)describe in general terms the form and manner in which an appeal to an adjudicator must be made.

Since I’m missing the essential PIN Code I cannot access TPT and I am therefore forced to return this appeal to the Council whereas TPT is it’s proper destination. This of course ranks as a procedural impropriety of the first order.

Want to give up now before I start on the illegality of moving camera cars and withholding your discretion against two disabled boys?

Yours

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2024, 10:47:57 pm »
Thanks Mike, no i havent had the pin, so do i email this email back and ask for it?pcn-query@wppp.org.uk
O

MMV Redux

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2024, 08:47:09 am »
Send this:-

URGENT


Name
Address
PCN number

You sent me a Notice of Rejection, after I submitted an appeal, but failed to give me any information regarding my rights to seek adjudication at TPT. Crucially I require a PIN number to register with the Tribunal.

Obviously this is a major procedural impropriety which I will raise at any hearing.

Would you send me the above information asap please?

Otherwise, I will understand if you decide to cancel the PCN after this procedural glitch.

Yours

At the same time, for insurance, send an email to the tribunal indicating that your NOR does not contain a Pin number and ask their advice:-

help@trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk

In your appeal I would add this to the circumstances bit--

The law does give an exemption if the vehicle has to be stopped in a restricted bus stop in order to avoid injury or damage to persons or property (TSRGD 2016 at S7-6-4(2)(b))

Mike
« Last Edit: May 16, 2024, 09:15:30 am by MMV Redux »

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2024, 12:32:02 pm »
success they cancelled it! thankyou very much for your help