Author Topic: is my pcn valid?  (Read 309 times)

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guest584

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is my pcn valid?
« on: April 30, 2024, 12:29:02 pm »
Hiya, hoping someone can help me.
So i received a pcn recently, cant quite believe it, as ive been super careful.
I want to appeal and wanted to ask if it is valid, because there now time from on the notice, only a time to.
Basically, we have a little road train in our town, which has its own parking area, its a huge section, and the road train hasnt worked for over a year, you can see it all chained up, i guess for repairs. I recently was out and my little ones, who have cochlears and have learning difficulties, were biting on there cochlears.  Cochlears are 10,000 pounds each, and when i realised i quickly had to find somewhere to pull in safely to stop them. I know the road train is not working, so i pulled in and sorted them out.  I assume some camera must have picked me up, because there was noone around, and if there was i would have explained it. I caused no issues, and i must have been there about 5 minutes, there was no train, i wasnt in the way. can i appeal this, on these grounds. I do have a disabled badge for my sons, but there are literally no disabled spaces around this area.

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MMV Redux

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2024, 01:18:02 pm »
We had a similar incident on Pepipoo. Same location.

IIRC it was a passing camera van and the Road Train doesn't run at this time of year.

We need the exact location via GSV please and documents (front and back).

The older case was, I believe, a bus stop contravention rather than the contravention given here.

Plus we have a will/may glitch.

Mike
« Last Edit: April 30, 2024, 01:19:44 pm by MMV Redux »

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2024, 01:39:35 pm »
thankyou, really a similar incident. the train lanes take up so much valuable parking, that disabled people could make use of when the train is not working, its such a shame, as the council know the train hasnt been running for some time now.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/MFoKB1Q8GPCMicTBA

MMV Redux

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2024, 08:17:28 am »
OP----in the first instance I would keep it simple as per the attached draft.

If they reject then we can hit them with the procedural impropriety (will/may) and the contravention being incorrect (it's a no stopping prohibition).

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/TRO/Bridgend/CC11-REV1-E2-PDF-Land-Train-1.pdf


Name
Address
VRM:-CU56SXP


APPEAL AGAINST PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE-- NO. PT21541165

The Charge

Contravention 23 - Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle

Circumstances

My vehicle made an emergency stop at this location because my two children, who have learning difficulties, were biting their cochlear implants. I enclose a scan of their Blue Badge, which obviously would not have been registered by your passing camera car.

I would ask that the Council take this into account and use its discretion to cancel this PCN.

When considering this letter I trust the Council will have regard to my children’s disability and its statutory obligation under the Equality Act 2010 to take their disability into account when considering the circumstances of this case.

Should the Council withhold their discretion I would like to have a copy of the video from the camera car.

Yours
--------------------------------

Mike

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2024, 08:21:33 am »
thankyou mike appreciate. will let you know

H C Andersen

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2024, 02:07:24 pm »
OP, the sign states that this is also a bus stop 24/7 * so alternative use by BB holders isn't an option.

- the no stopping sign is 7 day 9-9pm, but when the buses run is anyone's guess.

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2024, 02:16:55 pm »
there are 2 signs on the road, one sayes for the train only and mentions no buses, and the other sides sayes train and buses.
on the floor it sayes train lane, i parked on the other side where it sayes trains only.

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2024, 02:22:57 pm »
this is the sign i saw

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2024, 02:25:32 pm »
having looked on the side there is actually a bus sign but you dont see that, and to be honest its confusing, as i dont think ive ever seen a bus stop here either, and ive lived here all my life. shouldnt the 2 signs not be conflicting.

H C Andersen

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2024, 04:05:53 pm »
OP, we need precision because of the very issues here and you posted a GSV which focused on the 'buses plus train' sign.

Can you link the video here or stills so this issue can be put to bed pl. Buses don't have parking places, they have clearways(if anything at all).

In any event, the contravention is incorrect as observed earlier because whether left or right they're clearways, not parking places, therefore parking contraventions cannot be committed.






cp8759

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2024, 11:09:19 pm »
The wording of the PCN is also invalid because it does not specify what class of vehicle the parking place is meant to be for, I'm also pretty sure the combination of road markings is unlawful.

Relevant cases on the code 23 issue are:

Mary Harding v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (2160271291, 26 July 2016)
Yuriy Myronovyh V The City Of Edinburgh Council (ED00154-2107, 4 October 2021)
Robert Piatt v Manchester City Council (MC00876-2010, 15 October 2020)

The point is significantly stronger in this case because the PCN is issued by post, so you wouldn't be able to look at the PCN at the roadside and have a look around.

Frankly before making a representation I would contact the council and simply ask for the video.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2024, 09:38:50 am »
hi all, thankyou, so i sent the representation off a few days ago, ive also had the video, they have rejected the claim. they have said the video shows noone in the front, well of course, i was in the back, where my child was, i was searching on the floor for one part of the cochlear which they had managed to get off, i have 3 rows of seats, and also the back of the car has black out windows, so you wouldn't have seen me. But i know i wasn't in the front, because i was trying to help my child in the very back. the video is really poor quality.  Also it is frustrating as this train hasn't run for over a year,they stopping people and fining them for stopping briefly, when they know no train is actually going to turn up. if anyone can help me do the second appeal letter would be most grateful. thanks, i agree the road markings are very bad, white and then yellow, and one sign sayes road train, other sayes train and buses.
i cant seem to upload the video as its not one of you allowed file types?




guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2024, 09:44:54 am »
does this work. hopefully

cp8759

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2024, 10:52:40 pm »
i cant seem to upload the video as its not one of you allowed file types?
That's because you're not read the "READ THIS FIRST" post

does this work. hopefully
Well sort of but I've fixed it for you so it works properly now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBlZOXpJhFA

Can you please confirm whether the PDF file you attached is everything you have received? If that's the sum total of the notice of rejection then it's basically a guaranteed win at the tribunal, as the notice is hopelessly defective unless there are some additional pages.

By the way I have redacted your postal address above as you should not share such information on a public forum.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

guest584

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Re: is my pcn valid?
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2024, 07:40:02 am »
Thankyou for sorting for me. Yes that is all I received.