3. Westminister, Code 50l performing a prohibited left turn (no left turn), Bickenhall Street - Baker Street
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Westminister, Code 50l performing a prohibited left turn (no left turn), Bickenhall Street - Baker Street
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Hello all,

I received a PCN for a left turn I did. I had just picked up my wife's friend (so I didn't get a chance to use maps/waze to my destination) from Bickenhall Street (https://maps.app.goo.gl/W1SQAbKLwsb9FDFx7) and I didn't notice the sign at the time. Had a look at the PCN, from the picture, the sign looks obscured by the scaffolding.

Is there any way I appeal this?



« Last Edit: May 14, 2025, 11:17:04 pm by MHussain »
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Re: Westminister, Code 50l performing a prohibited left turn (no left turn), Bickenhall Street - Baker Street
« Reply #1 on: »
Their own photos shows obscuration of the sign by the scaffolding yet still they issue a PCN. So why do they do this ? Because they are a venal and rapacious London council !

So I would submit reps based on the sign being obscured, and there being no sign on the other side of the street, so you saw no restriction sign on approach to the junction. In addition, there is no direction indication in the form of arrows in the carriageway, the restriction is indicated by the obscured sign alone.
If you like, post up a draft here for review before submitting it.
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Re: Westminister, Code 50l performing a prohibited left turn (no left turn), Bickenhall Street - Baker Street
« Reply #2 on: »
That's ridiculous assuming no other signage. Even the camera sign is not facing traffic. From in the car the banned turn sign is probably even less visible.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2025, 11:43:36 pm by stamfordman »
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Re: Westminister, Code 50l performing a prohibited left turn (no left turn), Bickenhall Street - Baker Street
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on May 14, 2025, 11:33:13 pm
Their own photos shows obscuration of the sign by the scaffolding yet still they issue a PCN. So why do they do this ? Because they are a venal and rapacious London council !

So I would submit reps based on the sign being obscured, and there being no sign on the other side of the street, so you saw no restriction sign on approach to the junction. In addition, there is no direction indication in the form of arrows in the carriageway, the restriction is indicated by the obscured sign alone.
If you like, post up a draft here for review before submitting it.

Yeah - that would help a lot, thank you. I've drafted a statement below, let me know what you think.


Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to make representations against the PCN for the left turn at Bickenhall Street, Westminster.

At the time of the alleged contravention, the scaffolding in place at the end of the junction obscured the restriction signage. From the provided evidence, the sign is not clearly visible obstruction from the position of the camera due to the obstruction.

Additionally, there is no other restriction sign on the opposite side of the road, direction indicators signs/on the carriageway. The only indication of contravention 50l (no left turn) is the usage of a single sign post.

Given the above, with the only sign indicating a restriction being blocked, it is near impossible to clearly see a restriction is place when approaching the junction.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2025, 10:54:24 am by MHussain »
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Re: Westminister, Code 50l performing a prohibited left turn (no left turn), Bickenhall Street - Baker Street
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on May 14, 2025, 11:41:38 pm
That's ridiculous assuming no other signage. Even the camera sign is not facing traffic. From in the car the banned turn sign is probably even less visible.



I'm not too sure about other signage when I drove there (like a temporary no turn left sign) but looking at the latest GSV, there doesn't seem to be anything else to indicate the restriction. Would've been nice if I had the dashcam footage (overwritten now) to know for sure.

Couldn't see anything on approach and could only see the pole at the junction.
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Re: Westminister, Code 50l performing a prohibited left turn (no left turn), Bickenhall Street - Baker Street
« Reply #5 on: »
I've looked at this location before regarding the congestion charge - it's just weird that you can't turn left to escape the zone there having turned off Gloucester Place. Instead you have to turn right, right, right, and go back up Gloucester Place and it's not signed as such.

You have a rock solid case in my view. They will cancel this and on the slim chance they don't an adjudicator will allow an appeal. 

I would keep it short and not speculate about other signs - I'm pretty sure there aren't any anyway.
----------------

I am writing to make representations against the PCN for the left turn at Bickenhall Street, Westminster.

At the time of the alleged contravention, the scaffolding in place at the end of the junction obscured the restriction sign. Please check your pictures and video - I simply could not see the no left turn sign as I'm sure you will agree and only found out about the sign from your website. Even with your camera angle the sign is obscured and it certainly was in my driving position.

As such the contravention did not occur and I look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation of this PCN.

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Re: Westminister, Code 50l performing a prohibited left turn (no left turn), Bickenhall Street - Baker Street
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on May 15, 2025, 11:46:06 am
I've looked at this location before regarding the congestion charge - it's just weird that you can't turn left to escape the zone there having turned off Gloucester Place. Instead you have to turn right, right, right, and go back up Gloucester Place and it's not signed as such.

You have a rock solid case in my view. They will cancel this and on the slim chance they don't an adjudicator will allow an appeal. 

I would keep it short and not speculate about other signs - I'm pretty sure there aren't any anyway.
----------------

I am writing to make representations against the PCN for the left turn at Bickenhall Street, Westminster.

At the time of the alleged contravention, the scaffolding in place at the end of the junction obscured the restriction sign. Please check your pictures and video - I simply could not see the no left turn sign as I'm sure you will agree and only found out about the sign from your website. Even with your camera angle the sign is obscured and it certainly was in my driving position.

As such the contravention did not occur and I look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation of this PCN.

Hopefully - thanks for the written response. I'll post here of the outcome.
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Re: Westminister, Code 50l performing a prohibited left turn (no left turn), Bickenhall Street - Baker Street
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on May 15, 2025, 11:46:06 am
I've looked at this location before regarding the congestion charge - it's just weird that you can't turn left to escape the zone there having turned off Gloucester Place. Instead you have to turn right, right, right, and go back up Gloucester Place and it's not signed as such.

You have a rock solid case in my view. They will cancel this and on the slim chance they don't an adjudicator will allow an appeal. 

I would keep it short and not speculate about other signs - I'm pretty sure there aren't any anyway.
----------------

I am writing to make representations against the PCN for the left turn at Bickenhall Street, Westminster.

At the time of the alleged contravention, the scaffolding in place at the end of the junction obscured the restriction sign. Please check your pictures and video - I simply could not see the no left turn sign as I'm sure you will agree and only found out about the sign from your website. Even with your camera angle the sign is obscured and it certainly was in my driving position.

As such the contravention did not occur and I look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation of this PCN.

Just a quick question, what reason (of the representation) should I click on, on the website. Options are: "The contravention did not occur" or "I wish to make representations about this PCN for other reasons" then "I wish to challenge my PCN for another reason"?
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Re: Westminister, Code 50l performing a prohibited left turn (no left turn), Bickenhall Street - Baker Street
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: MHussain on May 15, 2025, 02:10:36 pm
Quote from: stamfordman on May 15, 2025, 11:46:06 am
I've looked at this location before regarding the congestion charge - it's just weird that you can't turn left to escape the zone there having turned off Gloucester Place. Instead you have to turn right, right, right, and go back up Gloucester Place and it's not signed as such.

You have a rock solid case in my view. They will cancel this and on the slim chance they don't an adjudicator will allow an appeal. 

I would keep it short and not speculate about other signs - I'm pretty sure there aren't any anyway.
----------------

I am writing to make representations against the PCN for the left turn at Bickenhall Street, Westminster.

At the time of the alleged contravention, the scaffolding in place at the end of the junction obscured the restriction sign. Please check your pictures and video - I simply could not see the no left turn sign as I'm sure you will agree and only found out about the sign from your website. Even with your camera angle the sign is obscured and it certainly was in my driving position.

As such the contravention did not occur and I look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation of this PCN.

Just a quick question, what reason (of the representation) should I click on, on the website. Options are: "The contravention did not occur" or "I wish to make representations about this PCN for other reasons" then "I wish to challenge my PCN for another reason"?

The answer is in Stamfordman's representation he wrote for you, highlighted here  :)
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Re: Westminister, Code 50l performing a prohibited left turn (no left turn), Bickenhall Street - Baker Street
« Reply #9 on: »
Just an update:

I called up and the PCN was rejected.

They state that after reviewing the footage, there was an additional sign before the junction.

Appreciate you guys for helping out anyway 🙏.
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  3. Westminister, Code 50l performing a prohibited left turn (no left turn), Bickenhall Street - Baker Street