Free Traffic Legal Advice

Good evening - thanks in advance for any help you can give me with the below issue which I imagine is a little unusual.

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1. L B of Islington (Road Traffic) (JBW)
Thane Villas [Zone F] Waiting and Loading. Code 1 restricted street during prescribed hours.

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2. Parked on double yellow lines, next (but outside of) marked bay on 12/12/2022.
We were new to the area having only just moved in recently and did not know where the bays were.
It was snowing with thick snow and so none of the road markings were visible on parking initially, hence the reason for parking on double yellows.
When coming back to the car on 22/08/2022 we had two PCNs on the windshield (and could see the car was on double yellows).
We moved the car to the space (we had a permit and were entitled to park on the road for this whole period, if in a space).
I don't believe we ever received a letter regarding the PCNs (just the two on the windshield).

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We emailed the council at the time, with pictures of the snow in the street that we had taken on the day by chance.
They agreed to cancel one PCN (£65) as a " gesture of goodwill", however we paid the other (£65).

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We have moved to a different address and have just come home to find three letters from a debt collector 'CDER group', regarding three PCNs during this same parking period (14th, 19th and 20th December 2022).

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Location: Thane Villas [Zone F] Waiting and Loading. Code 1 restricted street during prescribed hours.

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The three letters are each demanding £279, due to a £204 alleged debt and £75 charge from CDER. This therefore totals around £800.

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This is the first we have heard about these three PCNs, despite discussion with Islington council at the time about the other two PCNs.
Islington never got in touch, but the CDER letters were only issued three days ago.

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Attached are the new letters.
Also attached is the original appeal email sent in January 2023, and an updated email we sent tonight (before we had the idea of getting advice sorry).

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https://imgur.com/a/yABuViB

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We would really appreciate any help! (Re: right to appeal given it is so long, what the next steps we should take are).

Thanks

Yes, that's correct.

Address on the V5C logbook is now our current address (i.e. not the address we were living at during the initial PCN), however at the time of the issue I'm not so sure whether it had been updated or not given it was so early after we moved.

We lived at the property for a year after the incident though (moved to this property November 2023), so I'd be surprised if I hadn't updated the logbook address in all that time.

Thanks.

Yes it was updated in December 2023. So has been correct for around 9 months, but can't be sure about when we received the PCN.

Does this change the approach either way?

Yes, there are three addresses (I.e. the car was registered to a previous address before we moved in December 2022, and then we moved again in November 2023).

1. I don't know when we updated the log book address as I don't have a record of it unfortunately.
2. Yes there is a chance it was registered at the previous address (but I'd have thought unlikely as I would have expected us to have to update it in December 2022 to get the council parking permit in the first place).

Either way we didn't receive the letters at the time.

The car is not leased no.

Thanks

Sorry, I think the date on the original post is slightly off. All five were December 2022, all within the same week, but only two stickers appeared on the car (hence us knowing about only two of them).

That answer is very helpful thank you.

I can't see how I would know previous dates of V5C address change unfortunately, but given we had just moved in, it makes sense that the letters would have gone to the previous address before switching over, hence us not receiving them.

So, i) is this £75 charge from CDER something we have to pay (regardless of whether they become PCNs)?
ii) is the cost of letting this go to a county court judge more expensive than the PCNs themselves anyway (i.e. around £600)?
iii) if it did go to the judge as you suggest is really the only option now, how are they likely to rule given the circumstances?

Thanks again

If you want to have the best possible and most comprehensive advice then please follow the instructions in the sticky post at the top of this forum READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!**. It's only required to redact your name & address where it's present. Please leave all other information visible, especially the PCN reference numbers, the vehicle reg, all dates and times and locations and the like.

+1.

OP, let's try and put this in some sort of order pl.

12 Dec. 2022 - parked on DYL; (for the moment the why is not relevant)

12-22nd - car was stationary(to be confirmed);
22 Dec. 2022 - moved car at which point 2 PCNs found:

PCNs dated 21 and 22nd Dec for waiting in restricted street challenged by email some time before 18 Jan. 2023. (exact date unknown but presumably after expiry of 14-day discount period) on which date an email response from authority upheld one PCN and cancelled another, but we don't know which!

3 NoEs received with unknown issue dates (one is 29 Aug. so not '3 days ago counting back from yesterday - OP leave in dates and PCN numbers).

Latest date for payment before addition of Enforcement Fee in each case is 16 Sept.

None of the post-PCN statutory enforcement notices in respect of the 3 missing PCNs was received.

The registered keeper moved in Dec. 2022. At the earliest the NTOs would have been issued late Jan. 2023.


OP, all the above shows when stripped to its essence is that the NTOs (and therefore every other notice issued by the authority) were not sent to a current address for the keeper. We're not talking about extended periods, according to you the previous V5C would have been updated promptly when you moved in order to present an amended V5C to the council for your parking permit.

This simple and very short submission should succeed with TEC provided you can show when your V5C was updated. IMO, it's this crucial.

Pl don't confuse council departments. Simply because you notified the council regarding your permit would not affect the address used for enforcement purposes, the link here is your reasoning that the V5C would actually have been updated, even if slightly after 22 Dec.

When was your permit issued?

? If you pay then there's NO risk of further enforcement, I think Incandescent has got the pros and cons back to front.

Procedurally:
If you pay:
Worst case: OOT not accepted, you're out £279 *3

Best case: OOT accepted and all payments refunded.

If you don't:
Worst case: you're out 3*?£279+a further £235.

Best case:
As above.

NEITHER option affects the likelihood of success with the OOT, this will in all probability be determined by the simple issue of when your V5C was updated after you moved in Nov. 2022.

You should also write to the council because:
1. They have discretion to cancel at any time, and
2. It gives them a detailed and early heads-up regarding your OOT if these are submitted( it is plural, one OOT per PCN).